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An unique 1930 Universal Geneve watch - Shield On Dial Of Early UG Three Hander

STANDY
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IIRC the logo was designed by someone's son in 1937 so may have been used after 1937

The white printing is very similar to the Dutch military watch with the W on it.

Finally if there was any brand to throw the rule/history book out, Universal Geneve would be the winner

@Diabolik while I agree with your principal of the last post.
It would not be unthinkable that this logo was used in only one continent or country.
The three examples shown by respected members show that it has been used.
 
Diabolik
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It could have been used in one country or another. However, where is the evidence for that ?

Respectfully, of all of the samples shown, I cannot find one that is beyond reasonable doubt a reference that came out of the UG factory. I can accept that some sort of customisation. Was carried out on dial though ... but then again why would you want to do that ?
Edited:
 
Tony C.
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Diabolik Diabolik
Respectfully, of all of the samples shown, I cannot find one that is beyond reasonable doubt a reference that came out of the UG factory. I can accept that some sort of customisation. Was carried out on dial though ... but then again why would you want to do that ?

What? You believe that the first watch shown by @bgrisso and the pocket watch shown by @Modest_Proposal are not compelling examples?

I see nothing about either that suggests other than originality. Meaning that the OP's example is not a "one-off".

Furthermore, they all appear to be consistent in terms of the dial designs and period of production. And again, given the obvious age of these examples, why on earth would re-dials have been made to include a complicated logo that was not in use?
Edited:
 
ConElPueblo
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I'd be interested in seeing other confirmed redials with the same seconds track. To me, that is the part of the dial that most often looks bad on redials and here it's great.
 
STANDY
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So if we are talking reasonable doubt.

All examples are UG
All examples are different watches
All examples are on sub dial seconds
All examples are manual caliber pre WW2
The actual 1894 is definitely a marketing ploy to show the company had been around since 1984.

Having read the below book it was quiet common for the same watch to have several dials to appease the country of destination.

image.jpeg
 
Carlton-Browne
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STANDY STANDY
IIRC the logo was designed by someone's son in 1937 so may have been used after 1937
Do you have a source for that?
 
Diabolik
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We need references and serial number to further this discussion. It is pointless going on about "looks like" and reasons why it is. Best to go on documented evidence not guess work ...
 
Tony C.
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Diabolik Diabolik
We need references and serial number to further this discussion. It is pointless going on about "looks like" and reasons why it is. Best to go on documented evidence not guess work ...

Three watches, all from the same period, all with sub-dials, one of which appears to be in mint condition, all with the same logo, is documented evidence.
 
STANDY
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Carlton-Browne Carlton-Browne
Do you have a source for that?

Pretty solid one 👍👍


Universal Geneve website ( can't link as on iPad mini )

Universal Genève logo circa 1937, designed by Ulysse Perret's son, Raoul
 
Tony C.
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Hmmm...what have we here? One might say further documentation.

UGlg2.jpg
Edited:
 
Syrte
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Diabolik Diabolik
beyond reasonable doubt

Are watches presumed innocent or presumed guilty when they are proferred by people who are presumably not crooks ? 😉
 
STANDY
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Syrte Syrte
Are watches presumed innocent or presumed guilty when they are proferred by people who are presumably not crooks ? 😉

A couple of times I thought " glad he's not my lawyer " 😜
 
jerryct
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Syrte Syrte
PS that strap is a looker!! May I ask where you got it? It looks like vintage pigskin.

Yes you are right. It’s vintage pigskin, perfect for this watch. I bought it from a local store called @heirloomgallery
 
jerryct
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Syrte Syrte
Are you prepared to risk damaging it just because one or two people on a forum are giving an opinion others are debating?

I wouldn’t. It’s a very nice looking watch, if you’re just looking to wear it, why bother?

Unless a redial job is sloppy and blatant, only a person holding a watch in hand ultimately can say if the dial is original.
Well intentioned people these days like to pick watches apart.
It’s happened a couple of times to me with Longines watches. Someone considered an expert on the forum called it a redial, of course giving leave for a other people to « vote » — a watch which other, knowledgeable collectors deemed «patently original».
It is clearly today the most outstanding and valuable watch I own and I even hesitated to let Longines’ own chief vintage watchmaker open it.

Yea my comment was targeted at this point too. Not going to open my watch for this
 
Diabolik
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Tony C. Tony C.
Hmmm...what have we here? One might say further documentation.

UGlg2.jpg

That is good enough. It proves the point. As far as presumed authentic and not, considering that an individual may invest a significant amount of money in purchasing a vintage, it is only wise to do a complete due diligence regardless of where / whom thr watch comes from. I can't see any issues in asking questions and confirming authenticity of any watch. Let's face it, mistakes and assumptions can be very costly ....
 
Mark020
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STANDY STANDY
So if we are talking reasonable doubt.
Having read the below book it was quiet common for the same watch to have several dials to appease the country of destination.
image.jpeg
Interesting book. Thanks!
 
jerryct
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Diabolik Diabolik
That is good enough. It proves the point. As far as presumed authentic and not, considering that an individual may invest a significant amount of money in purchasing a vintage, it is only wise to do a complete due diligence regardless of where / whom thr watch comes from. I can't see any issues in asking questions and confirming authenticity of any watch. Let's face it, mistakes and assumptions can be very costly ....
Indeed man! I’m really appreciative for you for chipping in this discussion. I think we all can learn from each other here. UG just has too many treasures for us to discover. Till today, there are still new things coming out from time to time.
 
jerryct
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Tony C. Tony C.
Hmmm...what have we here? One might say further documentation.

UGlg2.jpg
I’m impressed at how you guys find all these!
 
Syrte
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STANDY STANDY
Having read the below book it was quiet common for the same watch to have several dials to appease the country of destination.

image.jpeg
« Appease the country of destination » meaning several dial design so their local distributors think they’re getting something exclusive?
 
Larry S
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Another great one...Retirement project has to be collation and indexing of all these debates. We’ve talked about a supplement to Sala... this sub forum is the bones of it. @jerryct, would you be so kind as add “Shield On Dial Of Early UG Three Hander” somewhere in your post title so it shows up in a search?
 
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