Uscjake87 "I have heard is that his "early astro" watch was advertised as being owned by an X-15 pilot when it wasn't" Well in a way you're kind of right... But that's the problom with hearsay, The vast amount of times it's wrong, The watch in question was owned by a U2 pilot named James Abraham and he has always been listed as rank/Civ and his 1st flight was 1956, He was not a X-15 pilot AND he was not CIA and no official links to the CIA exists for reason which should be quite obvious and besides him being on this list of U2 pilots below your not going to find much more about him online if anything... http://area51specialprojects.com/u2_pilots_1950s.html It's no surprise to me you heard he was a X-15 pilot because one of bobbee's favorite tactics is to spread as much disinfomation as he can and anywhere he can, That's what he does! bobbee will tell you he contacted James Abraham's son here in Las Vegas but that's a lie because I talked to his son and he told me no one has ever contacted him about any watches his father owned! I must say Uscjake87 you were sooo close to understanding exactly what bobbee is and what he does AND why he's doing it! "I do find it strange that you feel compelled to interrupt a lot of posts about accutron astronauts to discuss his watch but it is borderline internet stalking" But why bobbee does that is very simple, He's just trying to make good on an old threat make over two years ago! And he will stop at nothing to try to make that happen, Nothing, And he'll use anyone here if he can to make that happen, He does it all the time and he's doing it right now in here... Uscjake87 "I personally haven't seen any other astronauts with the white spade hands on google images or any other source except for his watch" Well there is this Bulova picture that comes from an independent source Martin Marcus... Or there is this 1962 Bulova dealers card that were only given to authorized Bulova dealers that clearly states the dial and hands were not lumed, Well not the watch in this Bulova dealers card anyway... Or there is this picture from a 1962 Bulova brochure... Or there is this picture from a 1962 Bulova catalog spread... Or of course there are all the magazine ads dating from 1962... Even ads dated 1962 from overseas... Not to mention a picture of John Carpenter wearing the watch on the cover of "Paris March" magazine in 1962... So now you can say you've seen 8 of them and all of them were from official sources that can easily dated to 1962... Look I don't have any beef with you Uscjake87 but if you start talking ^%$& you've "heard" about me that bobbee has been spreading around I will respond using the truth that you may not want everybody to know about you... Uscjake87 "I don't disagree with your assessment that he cobbled it together" You mean like when you were talking about doing that very thing (cobbling together a M2 astronaut from parts) but are having no luck trying to find the key factory parts needed... https://www.watchtalkforums.info/forums/thread161447.html You stated there... "In search of a pillar plate for my other rare M2 astronaut, I had Chris Radek give it a look to check the dial to see if it was a M2 date code or if this would be parts for my other project. It was a pleasant surprise to see a dial with a proper date code. Looks like my hunt for the 214HN M2 plate for my other project will continue on" The only way you are going to find the key correct factory parts needed to make a 1962 Accutron Astronaut is if you can find the entire watch somewhere, But then that would defeat the need to find any parts to try and build one from scratch! Now knowing how hard it would be to try and build just one 1962 Accutron Astronaut watches from parts think about this, Bobbee claims I've built THREE of them from parts! That has to be the most asinine claim I've ever heard! That's like saying I've built three factory correct 1968 paul newman rolex daytona watches from parts! I can't say it's impossible but it is no more likely than finding the all the factory correct parts needed to build three 1962 accutron astronauts watches! AND bobbee knows that! But of course he doesn't care if the claim is true OR even possible because as I've said He's just trying to make good on an old threat make over two years ago and he's here now trying to inlist anybody he can unknowingly to help him with that...
bobbee will also try to tell you that in all of those pictures of the 1962 Astronaut the hands are some sort of "skeleton" or "cathedral" hands BUT the problem with that claim is Bulova never made that type of hands that would work with the Accutron 214 caliber movement, Bolow is the 1962 Bulova handset list someing all the hands Bulova made for the 214 movement AND there is only one White, Spade, handset listed, The P/N WS-25 handset which breaks down as W=White, S=Spade, and 25 which is the hand length... Below I've shown many Bulova Accutron 214 caliber timekeeping products that use the same WS-25 handset as the M2 Astronaut BUT ask bobbee to show you a single 214 caliber anything and of any year using a set of his claimed "skeleton" hands and not only he won't but he can't because they don't exist and they never have! Up to 1962 Bulova had never used that handset in a wristwatch but had used them extensively on many of the products made by the Bulova timer labs like their aerospace timers, panel clocks, And switches... Here is just a few of them... https://i.postimg.cc/SR0JqwhC/1.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/gj9xyrNf/10.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/x8rW0S1v/12.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/prNB9W8d/14.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/3RstgJg6/2.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/cCy1nw6n/3.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/KzdrwG82/4.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/903KpBdc/5.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/6qsXbZsf/9.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/hvTwCRfz/1-jpg-snapshot-00-12-2015-04-14-23-47-06.jpg There's even one picture of a prototype black dialed "railroad" watch using the WS-25 handset by it was never put into production... So now there is no doubt that the 1962 Accutron Astronaut with a white spade handset is real, And there is no doubt the only white spade handset that could have been used was the Bulova P/N WS-25 handset. AND everything I've shown is all easily verifiable by anyone to be factory Bulova documentation and also the correct date, All it would take is a little bit of work and you can find anything I've shown for themselves so there would be no need to take my word for anything...
bobbee will show pictures and claim that they show a fake watch but they are either photoshopped nonsense or just a badly taken photo that was cherry-picked from a group of photos with him showing the one or two photos that on first appearances look to fit bobbee narrative and he discards all the others... Below are some much better photos of the watch in question taken by someone who knows more about taking photos. AND these are the whole photo and not one very small cropped section of a photo, Bobbee takes the original photo and looks for any artifact that by its self gives the appearance of something it's not and then he crops out all the rest of the photo so the only thing you see is something that doesn't look right but most people don't know any better which is what bobbee is relying on... Note there is no "yellowing" of any kind, That's just more bobbee nonsense...
They can make them look close but never the same as an original under close inspection by someone with experience with Accutron 214 dials, Something bobbee has ZERO of, Heck bobbee hasn't even held any model of Accutron 214 watch in his hands or seen one in person! How is he going to talk about something he has no hands-on experience with??? bobbee won't try to deny he has no hands-on experience with any Accutron 214 watches...
What nonsense, The last time the watch was apart for service before it was sold to a collector I took detailed closeup pictures of the hands under an x10 power microscope, Anyone that knows what they are looking at will see clearly the hands are unaltered factory WS-25 hands that Bulova did make from "plain steel" but were what appears to be crome flashed on the top side before applying the white paint...
Just in case anyone was taken in by this: I contacted the administrator at myBulova, and received this email: Here is the screengrab he sent. Thanks to Stephen Ollman, who can be contacted for verification here: [email protected]
Can you leave your private fued elsewhere and not hash it out over and over. We get it, Accutronitis is a charletan but your constant activities are getting boring. As mentioned above, it borders on stalking and has no place on here which is in the main a friendly place. I see they are bored of you on TZ-UK too. Thewatchforum too. Give it a rest, you are about as welcome as he is.
I am serious. Do you honestly think there is anything to be gained by spamming every forum where Accutrons are mentioned with this? All you do is poison the threads and turn people off. As a result you lose any credit or sympathy you probably justly deserve for outing a liar and cheat in the first place. You attacked him, he attacked you, it got nasty. Not nice but address it where it happens and allow us to get on with talking about the watches.
Honestly I can’t tell if your the guy with the supposed fake, or against that guy. Your coming off really badly. Perhaps you should look at the image your presenting.
Fair enough chaps, I won't mention him again. On another matter, anyone read the Hodinkee article on General Omar Bradley's watch? Hodinkee were tricked. https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?452938-Hodinkee-Hoodwinked&p=5136479#post5136479
1962 October 17th. Cooper camera training, 1963, March 1st. Notice both he and his trainer are wearing Astronauts, but Cooper's watch shows 2:15 PM, and the trainer as 9:15 AM. Why?
I wonder if the exact weight of a watch is a factor. At 9 Gees a substantial watch with bracelet would add considerable weight to an arm already feeling too heavy to move quickly.
Goodo Bob. I spent over half my adult life on 24 hour time, and a good percentage jumping between various local time zones and GMT (now UTC) and I figured an astronaut would be on GMT, I just had to figure out when/where the pic was taken.