A notable change at Moonwatch Only

[kov]

I was recently looking for something specific in their article on Speedmaster production numbers and noticed some changes (again!) at guys from Moonwatch Only.

Some history : after they published the "Speedmaster Holy Bible" Moonwatch Only back in 2014 and Flightmaster Only back in 2018, they decided to rebrand to Watchbooks Only back in 2019 with the publishing of their last research book Chronomaster Only.

Seems like what used to be fundamental research turned up into an established business (a company established in Italy, I suppose ran by Anthony Marquié as he lives there) in 2020 :



I've read through their website and I must say a lot seems to be going on there. A lot more than research and book writing, apparently, to say the least.

Books

Oh boy, that topic still has a place on the website and I am really happy to see that. I hope that the authors will see this thread one day and - besides the three generations of MWO and the FMO books that I bought - this is another opportunity to say thank you for the remarkable work accomplished with their research and methodology in organizing the results. Please keep the great work, we certainly need more reference books.

Blockchain

An interesting approach to tackle some issues that we all are facing in watch collecting, mainly the traceability of timepieces as well as their condition/integrity in time. It looks like the guys have found a way to use new technologies and rely on the blockchain to "engrave" certain information about watches so that it can't be altered and allow a better traceability and transparence about the watch in time.

I am not here to advertise their services but certainly interested to read the comments from the community. I'm really curious to see if there's a real market for this kind of services - amongst OF folks for instance? My feeling is that this all is coming quite early and it will take a while till the collectors understand the value of the service (related to the blockchain), if ever.

Advisory

Considering the knowledge Anthony and Greg have gathered with their research, the amount of data and reference points they've got, it was quite obvious to me to see them monetizing the expertise by offering an advisory service for collectors at some point in time. My main question mark was on the "How" would they market their services.

I went through their offering and honestly have been surprised about the package. We've seen Omega offering their Certificate of Authenticity (CoA) in exchange of some coins (800 CHF) - it looks like our MWO authors decided to go for something similar but without dismantling the movement in parts. In exchange of some coins (EDIT : the price of 300€ I initially quoted here appears to be wrong - Watchfid asked to edit - so the cost of the service remains undisclosed, price on request, like written on their website), you get the Watchfid Expert Report (WER) - a kind of watch passport in a digital or printed format, with professional photographs and an assessment that follows a strict methodology, according to the company website description.

I am not sure Omega gained a keen interest in their CoA initiative from the collectors community so far, I will be following the WER initiative with close attention. So far I think the idea is good and there is certainly a market for this kind of services, especially within the high-end / six-figures watches. Still, I think the methodology needs some revamping and adjustments, especially in regards to what they call extra-points - this seems to be an open door for a lack of consistency from one WER to another, as it seems to be purely based on personal appreciation and taste.

Sales Corner

Finally I realized with the greatest surprise that our researchers-collectors-and-friends have officially become dealers as well. Certainly a way to ease the rotation of pieces they buy for research, maybe not only.

The trend seems to be everywhere. Hodinkee, Fratello, now Moonwatch Only. Does this mean that there's no way to live this passion (or live from this passion) and build on the core values without introducing sales? And if so, is there a risk of introducing a bias by the way? Again, I'm interested to read the comments.

Sincerely hope to read constructive comments and opinions on those changes as well as on their new offerings.

I am not affiliated with Watchfid in any way and writing my thoughts here is a personal initiative - no promotion intended.

Edited: Jun 23, 2020

 

[djmusicman]

I think the moonwatch only books were great. However, I unfollowed them on Instagram after they started posting watches for sale on their new wesite. No big deal and a personal choice.

A couple of reasons, I just can't stand seeing: PRICE: On request. There's a dealer in Paris who always write the same and his prices are always 25% over market value.

I have no interest in digital passports. The old worldly quality of these watches is part of the appeal for me.

"The Watch Score is 8.2 / 10. An Extra Score of + 2 is given for its unrestored condition, overall consistency and the special bezel.
Our WATCHFID Rating is 10.2" Oh well at least they made me lol. eBay sellers must be kicking themselves that they didn't think of that one first.

 

[airansun]

djmusicman

I just can't stand seeing: PRICE: On request.

A pet peeve of mine as well.

 

[pdxleaf]

Love the idea of the block chain. It would help in the recent discussion of the restored/reproduction/fake DON bezels that have become near perfect. I assume the digital trail will show when a watch goes from a DNN to a DON for example. A buyer could research it. It's not perfect but it's a start and in the right direction if adopted by enough collectors. Fakes are getting better and better. If buyers start asking for the record it may take off. Curious if Eugene's site would help to jump start the database.

Also like the WER. I JUST ordered a COA even though I don't place much value on it. I would have preferred the WER. Oh well, still an improvement.

Thanks for the update.

 

[Stripey]

airansun

A pet peeve of mine as well.

Oh god. Price on request. AKA "we'll see how much we can stiff you for without being called out on it." Or on e.g. the Rolex website "forget about it unless you're a footballer/other B list celeb."

 

[YY77]

Stripey

Oh god. Price on request. AKA "we'll see how much we can stiff you for without being called out on it." Or on e.g. the Rolex website "forget about it unless you're a footballer/other B list celeb."

Seems similar to the quote attributed to Rolls Royce: “If you have to ask the price, you can’t afford it.”

 

[Stripey]

YY77

Seems similar to the quote attributed to Rolls Royce: “If you have to ask the price, you can’t afford it.”

And makes about as much sense.

Apparently, that's a quote from J.P. Morgan on owning a yacht, which I didn't know until I just looked it up.

 

[BatDad]

I agree with earlier comments on the usefulness of provenance over time/owners . Using blockchain.seems a great use of that technology.

I'm not to certain on the ratings - I mean where does it end once a rating is provided - do we follow the Comic and Stars Wars minifigure collectors by 'protecting' said watch in a hard cover shell, to maintain said grade?

 

[YY77]

Stripey

And makes about as much sense.

Apparently, that's a quote from J.P. Morgan on owning a yacht, which I didn't know until I just looked it up.

I could have phrased that better with used instead of attributed.

 

[Stripey]

YY77

I could have phrased that better with used instead of attributed.

It wasn't a criticism - it just intrigued me who had said it.

 

[YY77]

Stripey

It wasn't a criticism - it just intrigued me who had said it.

No hard feelings, I googled Rolls Royce with that line and got it here.

 

[pdxleaf]

BatDad

...I'm not to certain on the ratings - I mean where does it end once a rating is provided - do we follow the Comic and Stars Wars minifigure collectors by 'protecting' said watch in a hard cover shell, to maintain said grade?

And they do seem a bit generous in their ratings. It would have to be used with a grain of salt. Spacefruit's 5 category system also seems more realistic.

 

[Vintagewtchzilla]

the price on request is common and don't see a problem with that ....

the rating of a watch is a bit more problematic especially if you have a financial interest in a successful sale.

in general a rating system should be, in my opinion :

- simple so everybody can follow (@Spacefruit schema is maybe a bit too simple and leaves room for interpretation)
- independent from personal tastes (appearance like"tropical", it's up to the buyer if he likes it or not )
- accepted by the biggest part of the players
- bonus and extra points is nonsense and only acceptable in supermario

also https://www.watchcertificate.com/en is in the blockchain game

imagine following scenario :
what happens to a watch with some minor flaws like service hands or simply a wrong bezel ? will it be doomed forever to be just a 6.8 watch ?

@BatDad yes on next gtg you see only plastic boxes on the desk and everybody is showing his certified treasure on mobile
"do you wear this nice watch ? "
"naww it's blockchained "

@pdxleaf i don't think it will help with fakes. all this is our own fault as we want to have the uber perfect 60 year old watch that was worn in military / professional diving but has no scars.

 

[lillatroll]

The grading system is only semi objective so I would not put much stock into it personally.
A potential problem arises with this service being ordered along side selling watches.

I believe they are perfectly decent chaps and would not over charge but there is potentially a conflict of interest here.

I guess time will tell if their buisness model will work. What it often comes down to is a perception of trustworthiness.

Would I buy a watch from Hodinkee? No. Why? Because my impression of them, and it is only an impression, is that they come across to me as money driven, money and profit being their biggest motivation watches second, unless they can flog you one.

Would I buy from Fratello absolutely because I feel they are first and foremost about the watches and give so much back to the community

In reality, my perception of both sites could be way off the mark. Objectively, the passion interest and desire to make money might be 100% equal at Hodinkee and Fratellow.

Book sales are probably not going to sustain the MWO writers and they are exploring ways of making a living from something they are passionate and knowledgeable about. There is no harm in trying.

Their collective research has been so helpful for our community and if the other services mean they can continue with their great work full time then we should try to support them in that endeavour.

 

[pdxleaf]

@Vintagewtchzilla agree with your insight about our desire for the perfect watch that bares no scars. Similar to another thread that questioned the use of safe watches, the watch that is hidden away but never worn. It goes against the grain of why we value watches at all if we don't wear them and treasure each nick. Like a Gollum with his precious. Would any one prefer a NOS 105.012 over a scared watch flown and worn? Not at all. One of the things I enjoy and respect about speedmaster101 is his preference for the occasional honest, nicked watch that isn't perfect but can be worn daily and enjoyed. An honest watch to be enjoyed.

My concern is with the dressing up and outright fakes that come with these high prices. It frightens me, truthfully. Even my local dealer is nervous about vintage watches. I am not advocating or pursuing the perfect example. Rather, I hope for and want an honest example, warts and all, without recreated bezels or new dials made in a garage to look old. I would hope that a block chain might help, but it may already be too late.

 

[Andy_timeman]

Clever way of monetizing their knowledge... I guess. Some people may use albeit there are a range of expert opinions often available for free in a variety of online forums and one suspects that the wonderful service that Longines offers for its super vintage pieces will shortly cost something. Everyone seemingly wants to profit and so many are really just traders despite claims to the contrary..... Passion in the space is a rare commodity. We hear the words good investment, investment watch and this one is only this much compared to such and such auction promoted by so many. Universal had 3 or 4 sellable popular models before H promoted them....seemingly bloggers, commentators and all the so called experts are often profiting from their own promotions. Of course with instagram this has been taken to a new level.. sadly there are so many experienced dealers who blindly clap and lend praise to something that is clearly not right....95% of the Tiffany dials fall into that category.... most watches sold at Tiffany did not have Tiffany on the dial (look at their old ads for a variety of brands) and see that AP, PP, Rolex Concord, Corum et al mostly did not feature Tiffany on the dial in the store ad. Today all have a Tiffany dial whether from there or not...

 

[Ree]

Can't thank them enough for making Moonwatch Only book.
For this new venture, at least they're presenting it as a separate business, with a new separate name and website.
Unlike most who simply put 'shop' onto existing brand values no matter what the branding was; which will cause more conflicts of interests.

 

[eugeneandresson]

Is nobody else curious as to what ‘FID’ means?

 

[SpeedyPhill]

can't wait for their " Seamaster Only " book

 

[rob#1]

eugeneandresson

Is nobody else curious as to what ‘FID’ means?

I’m guessing fiducial - ‘assumed as a fixed basis of comparison’