A gap in my knowledge - buying Art Deco Hamilton

DaveK · Aug 26, 2019

Hi folks

For my education (and hopefully others), I would value your thoughts on this assessment. I have passed on other watches with similar issues, and hope that I am on the right track. For this watch that is at auction, I believe that the gap in the non-crown side (perhaps caused by overzealous opening attempts) is too much of an issue to warrant purchasing it for occasional wearing. My understanding is that such a gap will readily allow dust and moisture into the case. Or, are magical baskets available to overcome such issues? No opportunity here to see it in person.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts

Seller seems unable to take clear photos of inside the case back 🤔

Happy Monday

X350 XJR · Aug 26, 2019

While it may appear that the case back can be fitted in any direction on these, there is a correct way and I suspect the gap shown is simply because it hasn't been fitted the correct way around.

gatorcpa · Aug 26, 2019

Some points on these:

1. I agree that the caseback on these should fit tightly. They were never meant to be waterproof or even “moisture proof”. Ask the seller to rotate the caseback 90 degrees and try again.

2. You will note that there is a 4-digit number engraved on a corner near the movement. On most Hamilton’s of this era, this should match the last 4-digits of the case serial number. If it does not, you could be looking at a frankenwatch.

3. Go to https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/ to get an approximate production date for the movement. Once you have the year, you can find the original catalog for that year here https://vintagewatchforums.com/viewforum.php?f=21&sid=cc6b5d7cbe4826c2112071f287d922dd

4. I think there is a good chance that you have an original dial with that Tonneau model. If not, dials can be redone on these using original processes (except for radium, for reasons that should be obvious), so having a redialled watch is not frowned upon as much as with say Omega.

5. It looks like the balance jewel is missing on this watch. I don’t think that’s a huge deal either as any watchmaker who knows the Grade 987 movement should be able to find a new one during a service. However, if the seller is asking more than $100 for this watch, given the obvious issues, then maybe you should look elsewhere.

6. You way want to sign up at Vintage Watch Forums. Some of the world’s top Hamilton experts hang out there.

Good luck,
gatorcpa

connieseamaster · Aug 26, 2019

>You will note that there is a 4-digit number engraved on a corner near the movement. On most Hamilton’s of this era, this should match the last 4-digits of the case serial number. If it does not, you could be looking at a frankenwatch.

Really? Learn something new every day.

DaveK · Aug 26, 2019

Thank you all.

XJR, the case back could indeed be on backwards. That could explain why the edges of the gap do not look mangled, just separated.

Gatorcpa, this info really clarifies that, for me, learning about a particular era or model of watch and then seeking to find one is the most interesting way to approach collecting. Quite often I still find myself in crow-mode, seeking shiny things, so many shiny things.

According to https://pocketwatchdatabase.com there were 25,000 of these made ca 1928. Nice to see what straps it would have come with it, too: https://vintagewatchforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=177. I am now signed up on https://vintagewatchforums.com, but it is not nearly as attractive of an interface as OF. Again, shiny things...

Canuck · Aug 26, 2019

DaveK
Hi folks

For my education (and hopefully others), I would value your thoughts on this assessment. I have passed on other watches with similar issues, and hope that I am on the right track. For this watch that is at auction, I believe that the gap in the non-crown side (perhaps caused by overzealous opening attempts) is too much of an issue to warrant purchasing it for occasional wearing. My understanding is that such a gap will readily allow dust and moisture into the case. Or, are magical baskets available to overcome such issues? No opportunity here to see it in person.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts

Seller seems unable to take clear photos of inside the case back 🤔

Happy Monday

Cases such as the one on the subject watch are easily sprung. Partcularly if there is a tight fitting expansion bracelet on the watch, or if the strap is worn tight! The pull on the case at the 6 and the 12 tend to cause the bezel to open up, thereby the bezel no longer holds the case back in place. You mention baskets that will solve the problem. I”’m sure you meant gaskets. And, no, there is no magic bullet to solve a problem like this.

DaveK · Aug 26, 2019

Thx Canuck. Where was auto correct when I needed it?! A basket might be a good idea though, keeping the watch safe and all that 😉 Thanks also for the info about the cases being somewhat easily sprung, that is certainly good to know. I love the look of these older pieces, and aim to have on some day.

gatorcpa · Aug 26, 2019

Canuck
Partcularly if there is a tight fitting expansion bracelet on the watch, or if the strap is worn tight! The pull on the case at the 6 and the 12 tend to cause the bezel to open up, thereby the bezel no longer holds the case back in place.

I have about a dozen Hamilton’s from this era and have never experienced this problem.

Cases are generally 3 pieces. The bezel and casebacks are separate from the center. If either the bezel or caseback is pried open too many times, they can get loose as the friction fit pieces wear down.

There are a few models that are two piece cases from the mid-1930’s and later.

Hope this helps,
gatorcpa

Canuck · Aug 26, 2019

gatorcpa
I have about a dozen Hamilton’s from this era and have never experienced this problem.

Cases are generally 3 pieces. The bezel and casebacks are separate from the center. If either the bezel or caseback is pried open too many times, they can get loose as the friction fit pieces wear down.

There are a few models that are two piece cases from the mid-1930’s and later.

Hope this helps,

gatorcpa

Take my word for it! After many decades of servicing watches of all types, many vintage and antique, it happens! Not often, but it happens.

DaveK · Aug 27, 2019

Update: I watched this auction, and the hammer dropped at $160.

Thank you again for the input!

A gap in my knowledge - buying Art Deco Hamilton

DaveK

X350 XJR

gatorcpa

connieseamaster

DaveK

Canuck

DaveK

gatorcpa

Canuck

DaveK

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