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2998-2 Brown Dial in Phillips Nov 2020

michael e
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M'Bob M'Bob
A63305F2-92FD-4340-8219-35EFF855446F.jpeg


Michael,

My 2998 has almost the identical hand corrosion, and I have it also on a Submariner. In your opinion, is it something in the way the Tritium reacts with the plating, or just the plating’s exposure to moisture over a long period of time?

I think it the radium in the hands might have caused light surface corrosion maybe. I have had trench watches before with very fragile hands that are easy to break and believe it was some kind of reaction to the radium, I could be wrong though.
Regarding moisture ingress, it could be but in minute amounts, I have worn this watch in the worse Yorkshire weather and it has never steamed up, the movement is in spectacular condition and doesn’t show any signs of moisture that I can see.
 
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M'Bob
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padders padders
No tritium on that Bob...

Yes, of course. Mine, though, do have Tritium (a later 2998 without T marks but checked with a Geiger as negative Radium) and the Sub being a 5508, again not marked as Tritium but must be on that 1963-4 changeover cusp as also negative, but with that same plating pitting with much of the other parts of the watch looking fairly good. So I’m wondering in either case (Radium or Tritium), whether there is some reaction with the luminous and the plating, perhaps in the presence of ambient moisture or Sunlight.
 
Spacefruit
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So bumping this for anyone who likes to watch auctions, as it’s coming on 7th November.
the page at Phillips is here
So far the consensus is that the plots are original, the lollipop relumed, and the bezel raises questions due to its colour and fit.
I have gone into detail here

still a nice dial mind you...
 
Vintagewtchzilla
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@Spacefruit if you do a review and already point out that it was on DB site it would be fair to read the condition report where S stated "
... lollipop was stabilised .... " also you should think about the fact that lollipops were a own production and not "too often" used which results that the lume color can be different to the dial due to a slight different mix of radium compound.
 
michael e
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Regarding the lume in the lollipop.
Even if it was filled with cheese it would not stop me buying this watch, I don’t think it would stop any serious buyer either.
The whole package is stunning really.
It would be madness to let the lume in the lollipop make a buyer spend a dollar less and I don’t really think it would be a consideration.
It has been a long time since I saw a Tropical Speedy I wanted so much for auction and if I had the funds some people have I would make it mine 😁
Who ever does buy that watch will only smile every time they look at it.
 
Spacefruit
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michael e michael e
Regarding the lume in the lollipop.
Even if it was filled with cheese it would not stop me buying this watch, I don’t think it would stop any serious buyer either.
The whole package is stunning really.
It would be madness to let the lume in the lollipop make a buyer spend a dollar less and I don’t really think it would be a consideration.
It has been a long time since I saw a Tropical Speedy I wanted so much for auction and if I had the funds some people have I would make it mine 😁
Who ever does buy that watch will only smile every time they look at it.


Agree.

most lollipops I have seen have different looking lume, especially if thought to be original.
Vintagewtchzilla Vintagewtchzilla
@Spacefruit if you do a review and already point out that it was on DB site it would be fair to read the condition report where S stated "
... lollipop was stabilised .... " also you should think about the fact that lollipops were a own production and not "too often" used which results that the lume color can be different to the dial due to a slight different mix of radium compound.

I hope nothing I have said has been interpreted as unfair to DB’s as nothing could be further from my intention.

I linked to DB site where they clearly state the condition of the lollipop. As far as I can see no one is hiding anything or behaving in any way incorrectly. Anyone with a google page will find the watch on DB site against the serial.

The only conjecture I have is who actually owns (or consigned) the watch now, and while fun to discuss, it’s really none of my business if you know what I mean.

However this is all public domain and vintage watches are a bit gossipy and I enjoy it - but at the end of the day I agree with Michael, this watch will go to a discerning buyer and give great pleasure, no matter who owns it today, Or how it got to the auction or what kind of cheese is in the lollipop.

I am just glad in these challenging times that there are still auction houses selling things that I am envious of, and that I can enjoy that feeling and applaud those who are successful in buying a watch I like.
 
Spacefruit
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That’s USD 112,000 the buyer paid.

note that Phillips have raised their buyers premium to 26%. Must be very expensive not having real people attend the auction in person....
 
harrymai86
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Spacefruit Spacefruit
That’s USD 112,000 the buyer paid.

note that Phillips have raised their buyers premium to 26%. Must be very expensive not having real people attend the auction in person....
Is the CHF 100,800 included buyer premium?
 
Spacefruit
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harrymai86 harrymai86
Is the CHF 100,800 included buyer premium?

yes

hammer: CHF 80,000
Commission 26%
 
kov
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However I think the owner could easily have sold this for 100k himself, it still is a good result for this watch in the current market 👍
 
Marsimaxam
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Spacefruit Spacefruit
yes

hammer: CHF 80,000
Commission 26%
I didn’t follow the auction and if you did you’d obviously know the hammer price. I too am confused how auction houses list their sold items as, I always thought the sell price was the hammer price. I know of many local auction houses that consider the sell price to be the hammer price and purchase price to include buyers commission and taxes. Is it possible the hammer price was 100,800?

From Phillips website:
“(a) The buyer agrees to pay us, in addition to the hammer price of the lot, the buyer's premium, plus any applicable value added tax (VAT) (the 'Purchase Price'). The buyer's premium is 26% of the hammer price up to and including CHF 600,000, “

So, if the hammer price was 80k, wouldn’t it be more than 100.8k if include VAT? Curious...
Signed
Confused
 
Dan S
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Marsimaxam Marsimaxam
I didn’t follow the auction and if you did you’d obviously know the hammer price. I too am confused how auction houses list their sold items as, I always thought the sell price was the hammer price. I know of many local auction houses that consider the sell price to be the hammer price and purchase price to include buyers commission and taxes. Is it possible the hammer price was 100,800?

From Phillips website:
“(a) The buyer agrees to pay us, in addition to the hammer price of the lot, the buyer's premium, plus any applicable value added tax (VAT) (the 'Purchase Price'). The buyer's premium is 26% of the hammer price up to and including CHF 600,000, “

So, if the hammer price was 80k, wouldn’t it be more than 100.8k if include VAT? Curious...
Signed
Confused

Here is what I have seen. The hammer price is sometimes posted initially, but ultimately it is replaced with the price that includes buyer's premium.
 
padders
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Dan S Dan S
Here is what I have seen. The hammer price is sometimes posted initially, but ultimately it is replaced with the price that includes buyer's premium.
This is pretty typical. It suits the auction to list the inclusive price since it looks like they achieve a higher sale price. Several UK auctioneers do the same.
 
Dan S
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padders padders
This is pretty typical. It suits the auction to list the inclusive price since it looks like they achieve a higher sale price. Several UK auctioneers do the same.

TBH, I like the fact that they list the prices this way, since the full price provides more insight into the state of the market, and it saves me the trouble of having to research the buyer's premium.
 
Marsimaxam
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Dan S Dan S
Here is what I have seen. The hammer price is sometimes posted initially, but ultimately it is replaced with the price that includes buyer's premium.
Hi Dan S... I just followed a sale at the Phillips auction and when the gold Rolex GMT sold for 40,000 CHF... it was listed as sold 40,000 CHF.
I will make a point to check later and see if price is adjusted upwards. Thanks
 
Mods
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@Marsimaxam re your confusion about the VAT. It says any applicable vat charges. VAT may or may not be applicable depending on the country of the buyer and the arrangements between Switzerland and the buyers country.
The flip side to that is the buyer may have to pay import taxes.
 
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