22430 "Hermann Göring" Compax

Larry S · May 24, 2016

valjoux72
Maybe we should start a crowd founding campaign here at the forum. Buy this rare Universal Geneve watch together, whipe out/deliberate the caseback from this aweful Göhring signature. No need for this kind of nazi crap memorabilia imho.
After that we could sell the watch as was it is, a beautiful chronograph, here at the forum...
The money earned we could donate to a jewish organziation that helps the last living victimes of the Nazi terror. I´m very busy these days so I don´t have the time to start. But for sure I would give some bucks to this project. If someone likes the idea and has more time, just go ahead...

We would need an exorcist after polishing the name off.

ELV web · Jun 18, 2016

Seems to have gone for 42,000 euro before premium....

Larry S · Jun 18, 2016

Yikes. Would not be able to sleep with that in my house.

KevinB · Jun 19, 2016

Beautiful piece, amazing history, was expecting it to go for even more after hitlers tunic sold for 275000 😀

Diabolik · Jun 19, 2016

It is a watch. That is all it is. It carries no curse or demonic powers that can be extended to whoever wears it. if you wind it, it will (hopefully) run. If you do not, there are no mysterious forces that would take over. My view is that it carries nothing. Expanding from there, guns or knifes do not kill, it is men who kill.

Think of all of the war machines that were taken apart and molten to build new things? My aluminium pot could have come from Goering's Messerschmidt! Does that mean it carries some part of his evil character?

My Sunday morning philosophic rant .... 😀

Larry S · Jun 19, 2016

Diabolik
It is a watch. That is all it is. It carries no curse or demonic powers that can be extended to whoever wears it. if you wind it, it will (hopefully) run. If you do not, there are no mysterious forces that would take over. My view is that it carries nothing. Expanding from there, guns or knifes do not kill, it is men who kill.

Think of all of the war machines that were taken apart and molten to build new things? My aluminium pot could have come from Goering's Messerschmidt! Does that mean it carries some part of his evil character?

My Sunday morning philosophic rant .... 😀

Fair rant. Could be that some of our prized watches were on the wrists of as bad or worse people with no publicity... Still I have known personally too many Jewish families that were torn apart by this bastard and his colleagues. My Czech grandparents and cousins would also have something to add here. So I'd not have it in my home. Personal choice.

Diabolik · Jun 19, 2016

Larry S
Fair rant. Could be that some of our prized watches were on the wrists of as bad or worse people with no publicity... Still I have known personally too many Jewish families that were torn apart by this bastard and his colleagues. My Czech grandparents and cousins would also have something to add here. So I'd not have it in my home. Personal choice.

I can understand and sympathize ! perhaps displaying it in somewhere like Auschwitz or Treblinka would be appropriate as it is an object linked to an individual who directly and indirectly caused a lot of suffering. However, strangely there seems to be something common between us all. In a weird way it tells us that we are all from one soup. We are all capable of doing terrible things. Perhaps it is best to remind ourselves of that rather then attempting to obliterate our past and risk doing it all over again!

Larry S · Jun 19, 2016

Well said. I'd feel better if the proceeds went to s good cause.

mozartman · Jun 19, 2016

I would never buy that watch, or collect Nazi relics in general, and I'd like to think I'd feel that way even if I were not Jewish, which I am. However, I do have a stamp collection from my late father, including some stamp booklets from Nazi Germany that would have been purchased by my grandfather for my father in the 1930s. My children have no interest in stamps, and I'll probably sell the collection at some point. But I don't mind having these booklets in my home in the interim. We need reminders of our history.
I was about to post a photo, but I'll refrain despite the well-established "If you don't have pictures, it didn't happen" rule. It's easy to find photos of these items on ebay and numerous online stamp dealer sites if anyone is interested.

Dedalus · Jun 21, 2016

Interesting discussion on both sides. From what I'm reading, our differing perspectives will significantly shape our response to the OP's question. Like some other members here, I'm Jewish. My family, from Poland, Hungary, and what is now the Czech Republic, lost 27 family members to the Nazi regime. So I do find it difficult to understand those who would own it or wear it. But then, I completely understand the argument that this is nothing more than a cool, vintage UG with an unfortunate name attached to it.

FWIW, Göering was certainly a monster. But like Hitler, he was also a tragic drug addict who, by the end of the war, was nothing more than a pathetic caricature of the heroic figure he once aspired to be. I prefer to remember him like that, as his Nuremberg prisoner I.D. card portrays him.

LaurentBxl · Jun 21, 2016

I doubt the guy how paid 40k for the watch wanted to buy a nice and cool vintage UG. He bought the watch because Goering owned it, and I would have a problem doing the same really....

mozartman · Jun 21, 2016

Dedalus
Interesting discussion on both sides. From what I'm reading, our differing perspectives will significantly shape our response to the OP's question. Like some other members here, I'm Jewish. My family, from Poland, Hungary, and what is now the Czech Republic, lost 27 family members to the Nazi regime. So I do find it difficult to understand those who would own it or wear it. But then, I completely understand the argument that this is nothing more than a cool, vintage UG with an unfortunate name attached to it.

FWIW, Göering was certainly a monster. But like Hitler, he was also a tragic drug addict who, by the end of the war, was nothing more than a pathetic caricature of the heroic figure he once aspired to be. I prefer to remember him like that, as his Nuremberg prisoner I.D. card portrays him.

Interesting. Göering was technically the most senior Nazi to face trial at Nuremburg, but he had been expelled from Hitler's inner circle well before the end of the war. That's why he was devoted to the relatively menial task of art plundering. He was also a bit of a vain dandy, so it's not surprising that a gold cigarette case and that elegant Compax were among his last possessions. Vain even about his own death sentence, he was willing to be shot but not hung, so he had his daughter smuggle a cyanide capsule into his cell. An example of how a man's watch really does tell a lot about him.

Carlton-Browne · Jun 21, 2016

LaurentBxl
I doubt the guy how paid 40k for the watch wanted to buy a nice and cool vintage UG. He bought the watch because Goering owned it, and I would have a problem doing the same really....

Do you have a source for this or is it just a theory? I'd say that, with the current bubble, it could just as easily be a UG collector (or somebody caught up in the bubble) however I accept that my assertion is just a supposition.

LarryG · Jun 21, 2016

I find it hard to believe that the buyer was simply a UG collector. The Universalone is certainly a fabulous and desirable watch, but other- better- examples have traded for less. Though the Ebay seller of the NOS dial believes it to be a 35-45k watch, I think it more in the 20-35 range. There's one on Ebay now being walked down from 80k to 40k and taking offers...

For some- regrettably, imho- the Goering provenance adds value. Pity.

micampe · Jun 21, 2016

Here's one without the uncomfortable provenance https://www.ebay.com/itm/112034125805

Carlton-Browne · Jun 22, 2016

LarryG
I find it hard to believe that the buyer was simply a UG collector. The Universalone is certainly a fabulous and desirable watch, but other- better- examples have traded for less. Though the Ebay seller of the NOS dial believes it to be a 35-45k watch, I think it more in the 20-35 range. There's one on Ebay now being walked down from 80k to 40k and taking offers...

For some- regrettably, imho- the Goering provenance adds value. Pity.

I don't doubt or disagree with any of that; I have an issue with people confusing supposition with fact.

KevinB · Jun 22, 2016

For a someone who is both a watch enthusiast and a history fanatic the provenance definitely adds to the value, nothing wrong with that tbh.

jfwoodman · Jun 22, 2016

may the buyer wear it in good health 😉

22430 "Hermann Göring" Compax

Larry S

ELV web

Larry S

KevinB

Diabolik

Larry S

Diabolik

Larry S

mozartman

Dedalus

LaurentBxl

mozartman

Carlton-Browne

LarryG

micampe

Carlton-Browne

KevinB

jfwoodman

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