22430 "Hermann Göring" Compax

Northernman · May 23, 2016

Kwijibo
I can't see any interest for a museum to own HG's watch. I mean it has no historical importance. it'as not like a signed paper with historical importance.
What annoys me most is these things a collected by neo nazi pricks.

So keeping it in a museum would at least fend those losers off?
I believe you are wrong in writing it off as a museum piece. Documents and pictures surely is important for telling a story.
However seeing every day objects, like a watch, having belonged to a historically important person (good or bad) can help understand that they were humans as well. And that we, as humans, are capable of doing extremely good or bad. In the case of Göring, very, very bad!

ViaAppia · May 23, 2016

Everybody is getting mad at the watch, but I ask you good members, if not for this watch how would he have known it was time to eat shit and die 😕

Kwijibo · May 24, 2016

Northernman
It's a mechanical watch. Not an object of worship or the bastards testies.
Personally I would be able to own such thing as I love the watch (except for the tasteless tag on the back).
I would also have been able to tell people I showed it to what monster that once owned it, and what he did that should never be done again.
If we don't learn and teach history it will most likely repeat itself.

To be honest I hope it is bought by some museum.

I meant it's not a significant thing of what this bastard was. If it was a luxury watch ok. This "man" was known for plundering Europe. In France he's known for having plundered the Louvre Museum. "funny" because he was keen on steeling what the nazis called "degenerate art" such as Picasso, Monet, Matisse and so on. He was also known to be a drug addict and have solid 24 k gold tiles in his bathroom.

Northernman · May 24, 2016

Kwijibo
I meant it's not a significant thing of what this bastard was. If it was a luxury watch ok. This "man" was known for plundering Europe. In France he's known for having plundered the Louvre Museum. "funny" because he was keen on steeling what the nazis called "degenerate art" such as Picasso, Monet, Matisse and so on. He was also known to be a drug addict and have solid 24 k gold tiles in his bathroom.

Because this watch exists we are, just here and now, telling the story about the bastard.
This is just my point. Artefacts are useful in order to catch an audience attention. The stories can not be told often enough whether they are about victims like Anne Frank, or the violators like Göring.

My greatest fears is that people "demonize" objects and destroy them. The watch in question did nothing wrong.
Magic should only be parts of fairy tales.

valjoux72 · May 24, 2016

Maybe we should start a crowd founding campaign here at the forum. Buy this rare Universal Geneve watch together, whipe out/deliberate the caseback from this aweful Göhring signature. No need for this kind of nazi crap memorabilia imho.
After that we could sell the watch as was it is, a beautiful chronograph, here at the forum...
The money earned we could donate to a jewish organziation that helps the last living victimes of the Nazi terror. I´m very busy these days so I don´t have the time to start. But for sure I would give some bucks to this project. If someone likes the idea and has more time, just go ahead...

Northernman · May 24, 2016

valjoux72
Maybe we should start a crowd founding campaign here at the forum. Buy this rare Universal Geneve watch together, whipe out/deliberate the caseback from this aweful Göhring signature. No need for this kind of nazi crap memorabilia imho.
After that we could sell the watch as was it is, a beautiful chronograph, here at the forum...
The money earned we could donate to a jewish organziation that helps the last living victimes of the Nazi terror. I´m very busy these days so I don´t have the time to start. But for sure I would give some bucks to this project. If someone likes the idea and has more time, just go ahead...

You can not wipe away history. Burning books or wiping of signatures will only gain the evil you would like to see gone.
Only by telling the stories can the future generations understand what not to do again.

gop76 · May 24, 2016

The man was a monster? Yes

The watch is beautiful? Yes

Do I like to own the watch? Yes

Was i able to give one more cent, beyond his intrinsic value, for his historical background? No

Will i make conjectures about his future owner and his motivations? No

Matty01 · May 24, 2016

I don't think I could own the watch but I definately wouldn't destroy it ... its part of our shared history and I don't think any good comes from destroying the artefacts, good or bad, of our past.

Hijak · May 24, 2016

Evil does not reside in things...it resides in the hearts of men!

CTS-V · May 24, 2016

Here's some other destroyed historical artifacts.....

Some may say it is comparing "apples to oranges"......but think about it.

Palmrya, Syria.....

Buddhas of Bamiyan. Afghanistan......

Hmmmmm........?

Northernman · May 24, 2016

“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.
(George Santayana)
🙁

Northernman · May 24, 2016

Had to read up a bit on the previous owner of the watch Mr. John K. Lattimer. Seems he had "eccentric tastes"🤨:
(From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_K._Lattimer)

Collector of military artifacts
Lattimer resided in Englewood, New Jersey.[3] His 30-room Englewood home contained an extensive collection of military paraphernalia, including "medieval armor, Revolutionary and Civil War rifles and swords, a pile of cannonballs, World War II machine guns, German Lugers, and drawings by Adolf Hitler.[1] Lattimer collected personal items from several of the Nuremberg defendants, such as Hermann Göring's underwear and his Luftwaffe ring. Lattimer was the owner of several grisly historical artifacts including one of the two cyanide capsules that Göring smuggled into his Nuremberg prison (Göring used the other capsule to commit suicide minutes before he was to be executed), a blood-stained collar that President Lincoln wore to Ford’s Theater the night he was shot, and a medically preserved section of penile tissue which Lattimer said belonged to Napoleon Bonaparte.[1]

Deafboy · May 24, 2016

The watch is an object that belonged to a historical figure. Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Lincoln, Curtis Lemay are all historical figures with lots of blood on their hands. Is a subsequent owner of objects from such historical figures a bad person?

Northernman · May 24, 2016

Deafboy
The watch is object that belonged to a historical figure. Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Lincoln, Curtis Lemay are all historical figures with lots of blood on their hands. Is a subsequent owner of objects from such historical figures a bad person?

I'd vote NO. Not necessarily.
As pointed out by @Hijak : Evil does not reside in things...it resides in the hearts of men!

gatorcpa · May 24, 2016

ViaAppia
Everybody is getting mad at the watch, but I ask you good members, if not for this watch how would he have known it was time to eat shit and die 😕

I have nothing against the watch. In fact, I would like as many people as possible to see it and understand something about the monster that previously owned it.

While I agree the evil resides only in the hearts of men, we have no way of knowing the character of a private individual who purchases it.

If the watch is purchased by a public institution (even one that is privately funded), at least the history of the watch and owner will be put in the proper historical context.

I'll hope for the best.
gatorcpa

Jonatan · May 24, 2016

If I had the money I would buy it and donate it to a museum. I fully agree with @Northernman history should never be erased!

Jonatan · May 24, 2016

Northernman
Had to read up a bit on the previous owner of the watch Mr. John K. Lattimer. Seems he had "eccentric tastes"🤨:
(From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_K._Lattimer)

Collector of military artifacts
Lattimer resided in Englewood, New Jersey.[3] His 30-room Englewood home contained an extensive collection of military paraphernalia, including "medieval armor, Revolutionary and Civil War rifles and swords, a pile of cannonballs, World War II machine guns, German Lugers, and drawings by Adolf Hitler.[1] Lattimer collected personal items from several of the Nuremberg defendants, such as Hermann Göring's underwear and his Luftwaffe ring. Lattimer was the owner of several grisly historical artifacts including one of the two cyanide capsules that Göring smuggled into his Nuremberg prison (Göring used the other capsule to commit suicide minutes before he was to be executed), a blood-stained collar that President Lincoln wore to Ford’s Theater the night he was shot, and a medically preserved section of penile tissue which Lattimer said belonged to Napoleon Bonaparte.[1]

Hey now, let us not judge people by what they collect!

bazamu · May 24, 2016

I understand all of the people saying that it would be disrespectful or in bad taste to own the watch, but I would disagree completely. I've always been fascinated by military history - specifically that of WWII - simply because it's hard to fathom how man could be so cruel and it's something with endless stories and layers. This watch is a fascinating piece of history that shouldn't ever be altered or whitewashed, and to speculate that the eventual owner is a neo-Nazi who would "worship" Goring by wearing the watch is quite shortsighted, IMO.

My father-in-law has a German Ruger pistol from WWI that's inscribed with "1917" and the German infantryman's name on the top of the barrel. It was taken off the hip of a soldier by a family member (fighting for the US) during the war. The gun may have killed Americans or even civilians during the war, but to hold that piece of history in your hands (which I frequently do when visiting) is an amazing experience. It's a tangible way to feel connected to 100 years ago, and allows even deeper introspection about the atrocity of war (if someone is so inclined to think that deeply about it). This watch is the same in my eyes.

gatorcpa · May 24, 2016

ChicagoFrog
It's a tangible way to feel connected to 100 years ago, and allows even deeper introspection about the atrocity of war (if someone is so inclined to think that deeply about it).

Which is exactly why Goering's watch needs to be publically displayed along with the story of how it was obtained. IMO, an artifact like that is too valuable a teaching tool to sit in a private collection.

ChicagoFrog
This watch is a fascinating piece of history that shouldn't ever be altered or whitewashed, and to speculate that the eventual owner is a neo-Nazi who would "worship" Goring by wearing the watch is quite shortsighted, IMO.

If I could only believe that was true. 🙁
gatorcpa

Carlton-Browne · May 24, 2016

Northernman
Had to read up a bit on the previous owner of the watch Mr. John K. Lattimer. Seems he had "eccentric tastes"🤨:
(From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_K._Lattimer)

Shades of Father Ted, in my view.

Northernman
such as Hermann Göring's underwear and his Luftwaffe ring.

I would have thought that, if I were to collect underwear from prominent Nazis, then I'd probably choose one where there was likely to be less wear and tear. It transpires there is some controversy as to which of the two this actually applies to. Maybe Lattimer was on the money.

On a less flippant note I'd say that it would be better placed in a museum however I can't see many of those prioritising the funds given the bubble that seems to exist at the moment around UG and particularly this reference. Maybe the bubble will save the day and the watch goes to somebody who values it for its' innate horological value (and one would hope with a grim acknowledgement of the other historical significance) rather than to one of the characters in the Father Ted video.

For better or worse this watch presumably this is the UG with the most historical significance or can anybody think of any other?

22430 "Hermann Göring" Compax

Northernman

ViaAppia

Kwijibo

Northernman

valjoux72

Northernman

gop76

Matty01

Hijak

CTS-V

Northernman

Northernman

Deafboy

Northernman

gatorcpa

Jonatan

Jonatan

bazamu

gatorcpa

Carlton-Browne

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