1966 - Matte Black C-Cased Constellation - A Good Re-Dial?

[kaplan]

I checked the movement and the serial, it's an incredibly clean 561 with a serial dating it to 1966 - It's obviously been serviced, the new crystal isn't Omega marked, seals seem new, the strap is new and I suspect it's a replica Omega strap? It has 9800090 written on it, I suspect replica as it's my default setting - it's a nice thin strap, the buckle has "STAINLESS STEEL" laser engraved underneath and it's a polished buckle

The hands in my opinion are regular baton hands painted white, their geometry 1:1 matches baton hands, so that solves that mystery

I took a risk with this watch, the sale pictures/listing was honest, it was an estate find, they outlined everything they saw, mainly the crack at the edge of the aftermarket crystal

So up to this, everything points out to a very good re-dial, is it? The dial texture is grainy and the fonts are thin

The thing is, I don't have any of these early dials with the tiny "SWISS MADE" stamps - the 3rd photo is one of those, so in my opinion it matches that dial / typography / sizing

Edited: Sep 8, 2021

 

[LesXL]

It looks nice tbh ... though, to my untrained eyes, it seems to me like a re-dial. The Rs and Os on the Chronometer seems different, and the font seems overall a bit thicker than what I saw on the C-Cased Constellation thread. I was specifically comparing it to this one.

That said, case looks sharp, and very pleasant to the eyes 😀

 

[philips]

This will tale a real expert to chime in. All I can say is the placement of "Constellation" would be one clue. Is it in the right place in relation to the star? Is it too close to the star.

 

[Rudi99]

Hi Kaan, no expert whatsoever, but I miss the seriphs and the minute markings look way longer than mine. Swiss Made also looks a bit off... But the grainy texture and the colour seem to match.

Would like to leave a few shots of mine for comparison.

 

[kaplan]

Rudi99

Hi Kaan, no expert whatsoever, but I miss the seriphs and the minute markings look way longer than mine. Swiss Made also looks a bit off... But the grainy texture and the colour seem to match.

Would like to leave a few shots of mine for comparison.

Thank you, the texture might be the same - I'd describe it as a tough 2000 grit matte plasticy texture that refracts light at different angles under sunlight



^ But it's a different dial altogether - the font is thinner

These 2 dials seem identical:



Mine is like 1:1 as the gold one, first n of Constellation is thicker than the second n - while for the steel watch, first n is thinner and second n is thicker

 

[ConElPueblo]

Without having looked closely at the watch, I can tell you that I can't remember having seen a cal. 55X c-case Constellation with a black dial. I don't think any were produced.

@Rudi99s does look nice though...

@Peemacgee ?

 

[kaplan]

ConElPueblo

Without having looked closely at the watch, I can tell you that I can't remember having seen a cal. 55X c-case Constellation with a black dial. I don't think any were produced.

@Rudi99s does look nice though...

@Peemacgee ?

It's a 561 and they did produce them I assume, as I've seen 3 others than @Rudi99 's - but all 3 were like Rudi's - T SWISS MADE T variants, if this one is genuine, it should be one of the earliest - I guess 120 CHF solves this puzzle but I kinda don't want to pay it just yet

Edit: If I apply for an archive extract with wrong hands, or with a re-dialed watch, would the request be denied are questions that come to my mind

 

[ConElPueblo]

kaplan

- I guess 120 CHF solves this puzzle but I kinda don't want to pay it just yet

Edit: If I apply for an archive extract with wrong hands, or with a re-dialed watch, would the request be denied are questions that come to my mind

Most likely it won't mean anything.

 

[kaplan]

Hmm, they don't record/report the dial details?

 

[MtV]

kaplan

Hmm, they don't record/report the dial details?

In many or maybe even most cases not, no.

 

[TexOmega]

"n's" in Constellation are not correct
and as mentioned, the star too close

 

[Losi11]

The spacing of the letters especially in the word (chronometer) does stand out to me.
Just a suggestion, try looking (with a Lupe) at the font while pointing a bright light on the dial. A slight angle works best. It might give you a good idea of print quality. My C case, and and other Connies I've seen with original dials have sharp clear font, kind of shiny in nature if you look at it from the right angle.
Just my 2 cents.

Even if it's a redial, very cool watch. 👍

 

[kaplan]

Comparing with a loupe, this one is the same typography/placement-wise

 

[kaplan]

My cons:
- The dial is in near 100% condition
- Someone inserted a larger crystal to it, and instead of finding appropriate hands, used white painted baton hands
- No other example for this exact watch

My pros:
- The dial seems to match weird first dial variations from that era, if it was a re-dial, it's probably a well done one-off, seemed unlikely
- I found non-black examples that seems to match every detail 1:1 (in my opinion)
- The case is not very used either, so the dial's near 100% condition could be explained by it
- If this was the job from the Michelangelo of re-dialers, I assume he'd better paint the hands and find a correct sized crystal to use 😁

 

[kaplan]

I stumbled onto this by luck today, from https://omegaforums.net/threads/can-anyone-provide-more-information-on-this-watch.6829/



Not the same version, it has a larger 'SWISS MADE' - yet same lume-less thin indices - however with shorter marks and likely thicker fonts like the latter dials

 

[sirtaifun]

Hi 😀

Can you provide with serial and reference number?

 

[kaplan]

sirtaifun

Hi 😀

Can you provide with serial and reference number?

Hi Dan, It's a 168.017

 

[sirtaifun]

kaplan

Hi Dan, It's a 168.017

As your watch left Omega back in 1966 it maybe looked like this:


https://www.chrono24.ch/omega/const...-168017-cal-561--by-1966--id19801664.htm#gref

 

[Peemacgee]

I appreciate the tag @ConElPueblo
I don't profess to be an aficionado of C cases
If there are black ones, then they are uncommon - but they would have been special order and never say never with Omega.

I thought I was starting to see a pattern with @kaplan 's thin index dials - I.e. perhaps a particular dial maker for these, with uncommon sans-serif fonts
However, while the black one and gold one are very similar, they do not match the fonts on the first SS one (which is more traditional with numerous small differences) but are again similar to the second SS one.
I fear this will continue to be a vexing question until someone has a selection of thin index C cases in hand to compare the quality of the text.

(IIRC I think the question of the close-proximity star was discussed previously and the conclusion was that some C case dials did indeed have a star more closely positioned to the text)

 

[Boojumhunter]

Some redials are clearly obvious, and provide us all with some laughter. Others are more subtle, and I've learned a great deal from the experts here.

Then there's the really difficult line calls -- possible redials that are so good that even the aficionados are stumped. I always go back to Occam's Razor, usually (but incorrectly) paraphrased as "this simplest explanation is usually the best one". For me, it comes down to the time and effort involved in re-dialling these relatively inexpensive watches in such amazing detail. Why would people do it? We're maybe talking adding value of a few hundred bucks, in a watch that's already got to be pretty good in order to attract a buyer at this level.

For me, if it's at that level, and I love the watch: I'm gonna buy it even if it ultimately turns out to be a redial. And not ask too many questions, to minimise buyer's remorse!