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1960s Geneve 565 (166.041)

rendo
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What do you mean when you say "the pallet fork does not move"? It's not supposed to move by itself anyway.

1. After you install the pallet fork, can you wind the watch? At this point, nothing should move since you have not installed the balance.

2. Can you move the pallet work left or right by slightly touching it with a wooden pick? See the video below.

3. If yes, then install the balance like shown in the video below, and report back.

Good luck! It's nice to see some progress and you are wearing finger cots!

 
UNLucky
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The pallet fork doesn't jump like that before the balance is installed. I have applied tension. I can manually move it back and for and it moves freely, doesn't stick or stop. After I install the balance, the pallet fork doesn't move. I was asking what position the pallet fork needs to be in when I install the balance and which fork is correct?

Thank you! I'm learning. So much and have 2 more watches waiting for me once I master this one!

I'm going to get a video of the balance tomorrow and a video of the pallet without the balance.
 
noless
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the pallet is upside down, it should also have the "center tine" thats the guard pin, flip it over and let us know how you go
 
UNLucky
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So, flipped the pallet and got it to bounce back and forth. Progress!
So, installed the balance...

Almost there!

So I removed the balance, removed the tension, and took my absolute time reinstalling the balance....


Success!! Thank you all! I'll keep the thread alive as I go and finish it up. The seconds post is missing the screw that holds it in place so that's on order. Should be done this week!!

THANK YOU ALL!!
 
JimInOz
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The pallet on the right in the microscope pic looks damaged.
The pallet with the third pin is correct.
It's the roller safety pin that prevents the inadvertent release of the escape wheel.
Read up on it here.
https://www.timezonewatchschool.com/WatchSchool/Glossary/Glossary - Escapement/Glossary - Escapement - Safety/glossary - escapement - safety.shtml

It also looks like you have the pallet in upside down in the second microscope pic.

Edit: Went for a cup of coffee and all the problems were solved before I hit reply 😎.
 
sheepdoll
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UNLucky UNLucky
The seconds post is missing the screw that holds it in place
Last night I made a fixture on the laser engraver to hold the sweep pinion when attaching the hand. The little foil spring bends real easy.

IMG_4632.png


Took a number of tries I only had the plate with me so had to estimate where the bridge went I mirrored the first attempts.

Still have not got the courage to attempt to fix the forks. Got a can of sterno fuel to try in the alcohol lamp.

The pinions are really tiny and I have not used my gravers in decades. Sharpening them can be a real pita, especially as I ligthly burned my finger on one of them. I have a wet grinder as well. The final shaping is done with a dremel and diamond hones. Same for the actual pinion polishing.

It looks like the SS spring retainer screw and the click screw are almost identical. (2215) I can not tell them apart. The data sheet also has the same PN for both. Some of my watches are collections arrived as loose parts.

Should have a 613 coming this weekend or early next week. The setting wheels (which took a month to arrive) were like too quick a hit. Now I need escape wheels and pallet forks.

The addiction continues.

Congratulations on getting the watch to tick. Next step is to get it to keep good time.
 
UNLucky
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That's really good to know about the screw number! I have some of the SS Retainer's on order and they should be here tomorrow. My plan is to use rotico to hold the screw in place while i apply LIGHT pressure and screw it in. I've done it once successfully, and this is my 3rd screw. The damn things fly way off my clean table and right onto the garage floor/black hole. Good luck with your addiction! I have to get a chronograph to see how the time keeps after I reassemble this beauty.
 
sheepdoll
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I am told here that the use of rodico is frowned upon by Omega and the modern experts. Personally I think rodico is your friend, but have been trying to avoid using it as much as possible.

Rodico also not give enough force to hold the pinion while pressure on the hand is applied anyway.

I think you mean timegrapher instead of chronograph. Of course it is easy to get addicted to chronograph watches. The watch does not need to be completely assembled to use the timegrapher. Once the watch is ticking then it can be used to diagnose faults.

Again there is a lot of repetition. Take the watch apart a few times and re assemble it. Or get some junk watches (I like AS movements) I am not finding as many 'lost' parts as I used to. Of course I have moved up a scale here working with junked 55x/56x movements. And the prices currently are not that different.

If you can get some in person assistance they can show you how to sit. Hold the tools and place the parts. Some things are hard to teach over the net, through books or video courses.
 
UNLucky
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I've heard that about rodico as well, I planned to only use it to hold the screw, not the pinion as the tweezers are just slightly too big and my hand isnt as steady as it used to be.
I did indeed mean timegrapher, but had just read a forum about chronograph, so it was on my mind. Thank you for clarifying.
I'm confident I could take this particular watch apart and put it back together from memory at this point, I've only done it 15460186185 times troubleshooting what was essentially, and upside down part, and a backwards mainspring. Ergo me joining this forum. 😀 I also have made the choice to work on one watch at a time, I have another omega on the bench I couldnt tell you what it is past a 1960s seamaster but it's next.
If anyone is in San Diego and wants to meet up for coffee, I'm down!
 
UNLucky
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So, an update. I got pretty much everything together! Automatic movement on, the dials, the seconds hand is moving, the date advances, so lets put the crystal on! ...I forgot to buy a crystal press. SO....in my lame attempts, I scratched the crystal I had bought, and have another on order. Should be done this weekend. Fingers crossed. I'll send pictures once it's all assembled, also putting it on the Timgrapher tonight. OH, and I was mistaken it's a 166.070 / 565. Not sure if that makes a difference on anything or value. Back of case shows 166.070 NOT 040 and the movement is 565. Thanks everyone for getting me here!
 
UNLucky
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Not great I don't think. I'm learning to read these. Also, don't judge my bench! It's also a 3d printing and painting bench. 😂😂

PXL_20240905_051855548.jpg PXL_20240905_052050142.jpg PXL_20240905_050806637.jpg
 
rendo
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This is likely an issue with the balance (hairspring, jewels, or roller) or the pallet fork based on my limited experience as an amateur. A few questions that I can think of:

  • Did the watch run before you did anything to it?
  • Did you replace any parts during the service?
  • Did you lubricate the movement properly?
  • Did you demagnetize the movement after you put it together?
  • When the movement is running, do the hairspring coils contract and expand evenly? Check YouTube for close up videos of how it should look like.

The lift angle for this movement is 49 degrees by the way. Not that it will make a difference when the timegrapher can't even read in your case, but if you can fix what the real issue is eventually, you should change the lift angle in timegrapher settings. Otherwise the amplitude shown will be slightly overrated.
 
noless
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before you do anything crazy, do you have a demagnetizer? when i see a trace like that i tend to want to demag the movement before anything else.
 
UNLucky
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noless noless
before you do anything crazy, do you have a demagnetizer? when i see a trace like that i tend to want to demag the movement before anything else.
Yea I'll toss it on there today.
rendo rendo
This is likely an issue with the balance (hairspring, jewels, or roller) or the pallet fork based on my limited experience as an amateur. A few questions that I can think of:

  • Did the watch run before you did anything to it?
  • Did you replace any parts during the service?
  • Did you lubricate the movement properly?
  • Did you demagnetize the movement after you put it together?
  • When the movement is running, do the hairspring coils contract and expand evenly? Check YouTube for close up videos of how it should look like.

The lift angle for this movement is 49 degrees by the way. Not that it will make a difference when the timegrapher can't even read in your case, but if you can fix what the real issue is eventually, you should change the lift angle in timegrapher settings. Otherwise the amplitude shown will be slightly overrated.
All good suggestions. It BARELY ran when I got it it would stop on it's own. I replaced the pallet fork and one of the clutch, and mainspring itself. I lubricated as i went and cleaned the 2 impact jewels. I need to demag it tonight. The hairspring looks good, i'll put it under the microscope tonight and make a video. Honestly, it's probably magnetized.
 
UNLucky
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sheepdoll sheepdoll
Lift angle is wrong. Should be 49 degrees.
I see that. Someone else mentioned, how do I correct that? I'm reading and understand its the point the impulse wheel enters and exit's the pallet fork. Is that something I set incorrectly when I reinstalled everything or is that a setting in the timegrapher?
 
UNLucky
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It's a setting in the timegrapher. I'll tinker with it tonight.
 
sheepdoll
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Yeah you have to stop the timegrapher and use the menu button to change it. Completely non intuitive.
 
UNLucky
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sheepdoll sheepdoll
Yeah you have to stop the timegrapher and use the menu button to change it. Completely non intuitive.
I just discovered this as well. Had no clue. I greatly appreciate the support. I'll correct and post results. Hopefully....HOPEFULLY this is the last issue. I'm never selling this watch. 😂
 
rendo
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UNLucky UNLucky
I just discovered this as well. Had no clue. I greatly appreciate the support. I'll correct and post results. Hopefully....HOPEFULLY this is the last issue. I'm never selling this watch. 😂
Adjusting the lift angle setting in the timegrapher will not fix a fast running movement. I only pointed that out as a general comment, not as a solution to your issue. Hopefully demagnetizing the movement will work.
 
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