1949 Longines redial for 6800 EUR

divetime · Dec 20, 2020

STANDY
So how would you reply to the poor novice that posted the watch in question here just bought for a insane amount for a redial. What do you say to someone who has just been defrauded of thousands of dollars by a unscrupulous dealer. (Be it watch dealer or any company)

I myself would rather see what this thread is doing and stopping people being ripped off. This thread is like a community protection.

Same seller lying and

here

https://omegaforums.net/threads/flawless.124168/

Sell a nice honest watch with a true description and you will get nice accolades.

Quite simply: I would advise him to return the watch.
A watch offered for sale by a professional dealer that is obviously incorrectly described is not a trivial offense. That is undisputed. Our opinion is close together.

I wanted to initiate another discussion:
Isn't it questionable to copy Instagram pictures of watches that are not in your own possession and to discuss them negatively in public? This without having agreed with the owner?
Do we want to take pictures of our neighbors car and post them in public to tell other people he drives with the wrong wheels?
I have my opinion on it and I am happy if it gives others food for thought.

JimJupiter · Dec 20, 2020

divetime
Isn't it questionable to copy Instagram pictures of watches that are not in your own possession and to discuss them negatively in public? This without having agreed with the owner?

No its not questionable. IG is a public place and when a dealer shows a watch, than he is doing it to advertise. Part of IGs DNA is to re-post those pics by others. No one questions those postive side-effects, cause its free mouth-to-mouth marketing. If someone wants to keep his watches for himself, he can swith to IG private mode.

Dan S · Dec 20, 2020

I see no problem with posting photos of watches and engaging in discussions about them. I do think there are some shades of gray here. Watches being sold are fair game in general, and professional dealers in particular, should be prepared to have their listings discussed publicly. It's a good way to learn, possibly protects newbies, and keeps sellers honest. Obviously we should watch our tone, and be aware that sellers may be reading the forum. But TBH, the way a seller reacts to criticism can be very telling.

As for watches simply posted on IG and not for sale, I still think its fine to discuss them, positively or negatively. No need to be mean-spirited, obviously. Certainly I see no reason that we should be limited to discussing only our own watches, as @divetime suggests.

JwRosenthal · Dec 20, 2020

Dan S
I see no problem with posting photos of watches and engaging in discussions about them. I do think there are some shades of gray here. Watches being sold are fair game in general, and professional dealers in particular, should be prepared to have their listings discussed publicly. It's a good way to learn, possibly protects newbies, and keeps sellers honest. Obviously we should watch our tone, and be aware that sellers may be reading the forum. But TBH, the way a seller reacts to criticism can be very telling.

As for watches simply posted on IG and not for sale, I still think its fine to discuss them, positively or negatively. No need to be mean-spirited, obviously. Certainly I see no reason that we should be limited to discussing only our own watches, as @divetime suggests.

When you post anything publicly on the internet (be it on your own website or on a forum/social media account) it’s fair game- it has been broadcasted to the world. I’m sure there are intellectual property issues at play but typically those kick in if you are taking someone else’s images and using them for profit- which in the case of education and critical purposes like this forum- they are not. As @Dan S said- there is lots of grey area here, but as I said before- if a dealer/seller is going to post anything on the internet- be prepared for commentary- it comes with the territory.

cristos71 · Dec 20, 2020

I think there is a big difference in the acceptable critical analysis of a watch that is for sale or one that resides as part of a private collection. Also there should be even less tolerance for description BS when the seller is a dealer.

A vintage watch dealer is by definition a professional who must make it his business to know exactly what he is buying and selling. Therefore a dealer who exaggerates, misrepresents or in any other ways attempts to hoodwink a potential buyer with deception and mistruths should be called out, especially when the watch they are selling Is overpriced to start with.

DRjre086 · Dec 20, 2020

There is always grey area and holds true in this instance. I’m fine with my previous post being taken down with contact info even though it is public on their website.

I have to agree with everyone on IG, you post a pic on a social media forum it is open to discussion by anyone anywhere.

JwRosenthal · Dec 20, 2020

I will take this argument of using others pictures a bit further and into my wheelhouse:
I am an architectures photographer. The federal agency for which I worked 13 years of my career documented historic and endangered architecture. Part of that work was to document historic districts and communities. I had several occasions where I would be photographing a private residence or business from a city street as part of a larger context and the owner would come out hostile and angry that I had not asked permission to photograph their house- and they refused to give their permission (I had the owner of a historic movie theater threaten to call the police as I set up a shot from across the street- I said go-for it). If I was on a public sidewalk or roadway (owned by the municipality), they had no claim to object- only if I was on their property. The view of their home from the public view was considered a “public visage”, and they could make no claim to it nor invoke rights to it.
All of my images were taken for education and archives. If I had tried to use those images for profit, then I’m sure there would have been issues of legality.
If you post it on the internet- it is a public visage, we can all see it, we can all share it, we can all comment on it. If a dealer doesn’t want their images shared, then they need to make the site private, have a password protected login and a statement of usage....I know I personally wouldn’t bother going past the first screen asking to make an account- vendors who do have that don’t get my business if I can’t browse first.

STANDY · Dec 20, 2020

divetime
Quite simply: I would advise him to return the watch.
A watch offered for sale by a professional dealer that is obviously incorrectly described is not a trivial offense. That is undisputed. Our opinion is close together.

So what if it’s a year previously and they can’t send it back ?

divetime
I wanted to initiate another discussion:
Isn't it questionable to copy Instagram pictures of watches that are not in your own possession and to discuss them negatively in public? This without having agreed with the owner?
Do we want to take pictures of our neighbors car and post them in public to tell other people he drives with the wrong wheels?
I have my opinion on it and I am happy if it gives others food for thought.

But your allowed to steal pictures and ask us if it’s a good buy ? :whipped:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/eterna-military-genuine-authentic-or-fake-help-apreciated.81337/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/japan-racing-speedmaster-authentic.100352/

Syrte · Dec 20, 2020

In this instance I doubt a person

divetime
Quite simply: I would advise him to return the watch.
A watch offered for sale by a professional dealer that is obviously incorrectly described is not a trivial offense. That is undisputed. Our opinion is close together.

I wanted to initiate another discussion:
Isn't it questionable to copy Instagram pictures of watches that are not in your own possession and to discuss them negatively in public? This without having agreed with the owner?
Do we want to take pictures of our neighbors car and post them in public to tell other people he drives with the wrong wheels?
I have my opinion on it and I am happy if it gives others food for thought.

@divetime, it’s an interesting discussion.
I believe if a person is offering a watch for sale publicly, they have chosen the medium and the publicity.

The internet and Instagram are very powerful sales devices, made available publicly by those who created those platforms.
Sellers can make a lot more money and reach a much broader audience than with old fashioned ways— but if they avail themselves of the internet to reach an international audience, they have chosen the consequences.
They put themselves out there.
As the Americans say, «you cannot have your cake and eat it». The French have an equivalent saying, « you cannot have the butter and the money for the butter ».

Especially if it comes to public discussions of flaws or misrepresentations.

Compare with companies. If a company wants to offer its stock to the public, it has to accept public disclosures about its business.
If you do not accept that: keep your sale (or company) private. No one’s forcing anyone to sell on the Internet.

I agree people should be careful when they’re discussing other people’s watches on forums— sometimes they make cavalier comments, I personally find it inconsiderate sometimes— but when that happens and comments get out of hand there’s often someone who chimes in to correct the course.

It’s a well known fact groups can be rowdy, but groups are also often more intelligent and knowledgeable than a single individual.

(Edit / add- I realized while I was typing others posted similar thoughts- I agree with them).

ConElPueblo · Dec 20, 2020

Syrte
As the Americans say, «you cannot have your cake and eat it». The French have an equivalent saying, « you cannot have the butter and the money for the butter ».

Just wanted to add that in Danish it is "you cannot blow and have flour in the mouth at the same time" 😀

JwRosenthal · Dec 20, 2020

ConElPueblo
Just wanted to add that in Danish it is "you cannot blow and have flour in the mouth at the same time" 😀

We need a separate thread for just these! I will add on the point of dealer misrepresentation another classic American expression:
Don’t piss on my shoe and tell me it’s raining.

Syrte · Dec 20, 2020

ConElPueblo
Just wanted to add that in Danish it is "you cannot blow and have flour in the mouth at the same time" 😀

Does it also mean « you can’t expect to have all the benefits but none of the problems that come with it? », or « you can’t have it both ways? ».

Tony C. · Dec 20, 2020

Damn - I couldn't find a Swahili equivalent. However... Ukitaka kula nguruwe, kula aliyenona ("If you want to eat an entire pig, eat a fat one", aka "In for a penny, in for a pound".) 🙄

UPDATE: Mtaka yote kwa pupa hukosa yote "He who wants everything in one go, will forsake everything."

JwRosenthal · Dec 20, 2020

Tony C.
Damn - I couldn't find a Swahili equivalent. However... Ukitaka kula nguruwe, kula aliyenona ("If you want to eat an entire pig, eat a fat one", aka "In for a penny, in for a pound".) 🙄

I truly enjoyed trying to say that 10 times

Syrte · Dec 20, 2020

Tony C.
Damn - I couldn't find a Swahili equivalent. However... Ukitaka kula nguruwe, kula aliyenona ("If you want to eat an entire pig, eat a fat one", aka "In for a penny, in for a pound".) 🙄

It sounds great but I’m not sure what it means in English. 🤦

Tony C. · Dec 20, 2020

JwRosenthal
I truly enjoyed trying to say that 10 times

It is actually a beautiful language to hear spoken.

JwRosenthal · Dec 20, 2020

Tony C.
It is actually a beautiful language to hear spoken.

Oh- I don’t doubt it! I find the languages of the South Pacific equally beautiful akin to the Romance languages. Sadly we English speakers got the worst of Latin and Germanic with some inane grammatical rules thrown in.

ConElPueblo · Dec 20, 2020

Syrte
Does it also mean « you can’t expect to have all the benefits but none of the problems that come with it? », or « you can’t have it both ways? ».

I am certain that there are downsides to having flour in the mouth, but I don't think it has other meaning than the latter interpretation.

JwRosenthal · Dec 20, 2020

And I think it just needs to be noted- where else on the internet can you go from the nuances of intellectual property to the beauty of Bantu languages in a single page- I love this place!

Syrte · Dec 20, 2020

Somebody listed equivalent phrases in 8 languages including Danish!
Polish, the wolf is full and the lamb in one piece,
The Italians say you can’t have the barrel full and the woman drunk,
In Spanish you can’t attend mass and ring the bells,
And in German, you can’t dance at two weddings at the same time.
Portuguese for you @Tony C., wanting the sun when it’s raining on the field of turnips, but no swahili, sorry.