1907 La Generale Wristwatch

Hello all,

As most of you are probably aware La Generale, or The General Watch Co, was a sister company to Omega founded by the Brandt brothers in 1895. They pulled out of the company in 1911. It was not however the forerunner to Omega as is often incorrectly stated.

I recently purchased this 1907 hallmarked General Watch Co wristwatch.

This is a very early example and I am convinced this is as it was manufactured and not a conversion from a fob watch.











The lepine movement matches one from the 1907 General Watch Co advert below from A Journey Through Time so is contemporary with the hallmark and I don't think General Watch Co made a savonette version of this 13''' movement at this time. They did a couple of years later and it is used in most of their trench watches.





The serial number I have put at 1908 from the records I have keeping track of them, though there aren't many to compare with from this period. As the 1907 hallmark ran from July 1907 to July 1908 this is OK. The layout of the markings in the case back is exactly the same as a few other General Watch Co wristwatches with standard wind at 3 cases I've seen from 1909 and 1910. From 1911 the serial number moves to the bottom.

The only difference is the 'Modele Depose' as opposed to 'Depose No 9846' in the later cases. Dimier Freres who held the registered design (No 9846) for watch cases with wire lugs insisted in October 1907 that other manufacturers pay them a fee and have their cases stamped with a Dimier Freres stamp. As this watch would have been one of the first watches marked this way it may be that this was the initial stamp used by Dimier Freres before they had the specific No 9846 version made. If this is a fob watch conversion there is no reason for the stamp at all.

Additionally there is no pendant tube on this watch whereas most fob watch conversions have evidence of a cut down tube with normally a reasonable stub left.

Here is an advert for Fenchurch Lever watches from 1910. These were an Australian brand and I have only ever seen them with General Watch Co movements, as is the pocket watch movement displayed to the left of the advert. Note the wind at 9 wristlet watch shown at the top of the ad. Omega were also making wind at 9 wristwatches at this time and as both companies were owned by the Brandts this makes sense. (You can order your 'Domes of Silence' from them too!).






I am sure I have seen another early watch with sub seconds at 3 but now I can't find where, has anybody else seen one?

It was advertised as working intermittently but it looks like it was just the second hand fouling on the other hands which I have now sorted out and it appears to be running fine. The crystal and crown are replacements though the crown is actually a better match for the original than a pumpkin one would have been.

Has anyone else anything similar? Hoping @OMTOM and @Tire-comedon might be able to help.

Thanks. Carl.

Interesting Carl. Thank you.

Sorry but I can’t offer anything on the Helvetia side – nor a sub-seconds at 3. Of little use but I have an Omega 18’’’S with the sub-seconds at 9 (which is the usual ‘variation’), a former car clock – therefore the opposite of your lépine and sub-seconds at 3. I think mine is genuine – but it came from S. America, so maybe: I guess 1912, movement number 4072907.
Tom

Thanks Tom. Always interesting to see something out of the usual.

Hello again Tom @OMTOM

I just wanted to thank you for indirectly helping me solve a mystery or perhaps two!

While searching the forum for details of Omega trench watches to try to put mine in some context I came across your post on the thread below:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/authenticity-of-omega-trench-watch.101780/

You mention about Omega not using 2 million case numbers. I then found this Omega table:



When setting up the serial number lookup on my site I did a lot of research using hallmarks, patents, inscriptions and other details to try to get an idea of how General Watch Co serial numbers relate to dates.

Working backwards I had managed to work out that it looked as if they had started out in 1895 at 2 million, my watch above with a 1907 hallmark is 2,600,000 for instance. I thought this might be a continuation from Louis Brandt and Frere numbering and was a way of displaying continuity when they moved lots of non-Omega brands to the General Watch Co. Now I know that Louis Brandt and Frere never used 2 million numbers things fall into place.

It looks as if something like this happened:

1894 - Louis Brandt and Frere began using serial numbers starting at 1 million.

1895 - Louis Brandt and Frere set up La Generale (General Watch Co) as a joint venture with the ebauche manufacturer Ed. Boillat & Cie and started their serial numbering at 2 million.

Louis Brandt and Frere and Ed. Boillat & Cie were also partners in the Central Watch Case Co which only made cases for Louis Brandt and Frere and La Generale so that could explain the desire to keep the numbering separate.

In 1902 when Louis Brandt and Frere numbering reached 1,999,999 they moved straight to 3 million to avoid the La Generale numbering range.

In 1911 Louis Brandt and Frere withdrew from La Generale and Ed. Boillat & Cie withdrew from the Central Watch Case Co in what may have been some sort of quid pro quo deal. Possibly Louis Brandt and Frere needed the whole of the Central Watch Case Co's output for the increasing demand for Omega watches. This date actually corresponds with a move of the serial number in La Generale cases from the top of the case back to the bottom so could relate to a new case manufacturer.

The withdrawal of Louis Brandt and Frere meant that by the time La Generale reached the 3 million number mark in 1917 there was no need to avoid Louis Brandt and Frere (Omega) serial numbers so they just continued right through to just over 6 million in 1973.

Incidentally in 1973 the serial numbers changed to two sets of two digits e.g. 49-73. The last two digits were the year and I think the first two relate to a factory ID as there are only a couple of variations. This change seems to relate to internal changes within SGT when Helvetia was closed and Silvana took over the Helvetia name though as far as I know the same factories carried on making the same watches within SGT.

So possibly there are two mysteries solved here; why La General serial numbering started at 2 million and why Omega skipped the 2 million range.

I find it fascinating how something simple like serial numbers can reveal so much more than you would think at first glance.

Thank you Carl.

I can offer a couple of comments. First is the importance of the case numbers in all the Louis Brandt products (until about the late 1930s). Unlike the more modern calibres, where the movement numbers reflect sequencing more accurately, it was the case number sequencing that applied to the early calibres.

The Louis Brandt products were produced under different names, as Marc Richon relates under ‘sister brands’ in AJTT – and this had been ongoing prior to 1894. These products (thus the watches made by Louis Brandt) were already given case numbers – there is sadly no record of this (we are told that ‘all records were lost’) – but the Louis Brandt watches produced (for example) in 1890 had case numbers (probably) in the 750.000 range. The case numbers did not suddenly start at 1 million in 1894 – they were ongoing from much earlier and just happened to reach (approximately) 1 million in 1894. The Omega Archive starts in 1894 – but not exactly at 1 million.

@Tire-comedon has also been working on the early Helvetia pocket watches and may come in here. Your comment about the 2 million case numbers being allocated to La Generale/Helvetia would seem reasonable – but the question would be when that started, because I think the earlier Helvetia watch had case numbers that reflected their sequence in Louis Brandt products (together with the other products) and were therefore before the 2 million numbers.

Good work! Keep it up.

Hello Tom,

Thanks, I obviously misinterpreted about the start of the serial numbering and actually this is more in line with my initial thoughts. That Omega had happened to naturally reach about 2 million in 1895 when La Generale was founded and that the two companies carried on in parallel from this point but with Omega soon outstripping La Generale. However with the discovery that Omega never used the 2 million range, as well as explaining Omega's sudden surge into 3 million numbers, I thought it probable that La Generale probably started at the 2 million mark rather than following directly on from Omega. I had extrapolated backwards using known dated watches and working out rough annual output and had come up with a figure of 2,001,000 as a rough calculation anyway so thought it was a good bet this is what had happened beforehand.

The Helvetia name was registered in 1892 so the first 3 years of worth of Helvetias should have Louis Brandt and Frere serials as you say. I have pictures of a Paradox with a 1,971,000 serial number which was another of the brands transferred later to La Generale. The earliest La Generale marked one I've seen is numbered 2,114,000 and I've roughly dated it at 1898.

With General watch Co watches the case serial numbers are the way to track them, after about 1930 movement serial numbers are rarely used and often don't track with case serial numbers.

As I mentioned above, I don’t know when La Generale/Helvetia started with 2 million numbers (not my scene). But I don’t think Omega reached the transition from 1.9 to 3 million until the end of 1902, maybe early 1903. And of course these case numbers included watches that were not yet ‘Omega’. The first true Omega was the 19’’’ – and the very first didn’t start to come in until the end of 1894/early 1895. All the other watches were ongoing lines that had been in production (for some versions) for years.

Please see my other comment...

Yes, sorry when I say Omega serial numbers I should more correctly say Louis Brandt and Frere serial numbers including all of the different brands.

La Generale was founded in 1895 and their watches that have cylinder movements and are stylistically of the 1900ish period all have serial numbers above 2 million and the fact that Louis Brandt and Frere jumped from the end of the 1 million to 3 million definitely leads me to believe that La Generale started on 2 million, especially as research I'd previously done had already suggested this as I've outlined above.

You are also of course correct that if Louis Brandt and Frere didn't move to 3 million until the end of 1902 or 1903 they wouldn't have been approaching 2 million in 1895 so it looks as if the decision to start La Generale at 2 million was taken well before Louis Brandt and Frere numbers were anywhere near the 2 million mark.