145.0022 hand made inner caseback engraving?

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kroro

·Jan 8, 2020

Hi all, I bought this Speedmaster recently and would like to ask the expertise on the forum about it. I've done some research myself and everything checks out nicely but the caseback inner engraving is what really confuses me... It's quite well done but obviously not made by machine. Is it a fake caseback? 483xxxxx serial on movement matches with case and there is even a small Omega logo in the middle of the hesalite. Bracelet is a 1499/842 with unmarked endlinks that are very rough (is this also normal?). Thanks for your feedback!

 

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Canuck

·Jan 8, 2020

Machine engraved, IMO.

 

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kroro

·Jan 8, 2020

Canuck

Machine engraved, IMO.

Machine or not, I just haven't found any other inner engravings that look like this. Or maybe I just haven't dug deep enough in this forum... 📖

 

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queriver

·Jan 8, 2020

That's done by hand for sure.

 

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JimInOz

·Jan 8, 2020·Melbourne Australia

Canuck

Machine engraved, IMO.

Maybe a badly set up engraving pantograph.

 

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Badwolf

·Jan 8, 2020

I think what was there has been machined off, this has then been added. Definitely not correct.

 

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queriver

·Jan 8, 2020

GRSA was a caseback maker in the 1990s but it looks like someone's tried to hand engrave their logo and the other details.

 

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ext1

·Jan 8, 2020

It's done by hand, but the font is surprisingly consistent (145 and 345, SUISSE and SWISS) so I think a badly setup pantograph might be right..

@kroro luckily it's not such a big big problem, replacement casebacks nowadays are almost the same as the one you should have, it's definitely less serious than something like finding a 90s trit dial

 

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Badwolf

·Jan 8, 2020

I think your end links should have 842 on them, can't see that in your picture.

 

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ext1

·Jan 8, 2020

Badwolf

I think your end links should have 842 on them, can't see that in your picture.

The 1499/842 seems alright to me, it was characteristic of 1499s to have rough machining and also to lack 842 markings sometimes
https://omegaforums.net/threads/is-this-speedy-bracelet-real-1499-842.17408/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/difference-between-1498-and-1499-bracelet.65364/

 

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Badwolf

·Jan 8, 2020

View attachment 905401

ext1

The 1499/842 seems alright to me, it was characteristic of 1499s to have rough machining and also to lack 842 markings sometimes
https://omegaforums.net/threads/is-this-speedy-bracelet-real-1499-842.17408/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/difference-between-1498-and-1499-bracelet.65364/

Good spot, so it's an early 1499/842.

 

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kroro

·Jan 8, 2020

Thanks everybody for your feedback. I was also thinking it could be a cover up of some sorts after somebody took off the original text but doing new inside engraving seems a bit overkill seeing how the caseback is (somewhat) easily replaceable.

 

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kroro

·Jan 8, 2020

What does "JBD" stand for? Found the same initials on the bracelet. Excuse the arm cheese...

 

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ext1

·Jan 8, 2020

kroro

What does "JBD" stand for? Found the same initials on the bracelet. Excuse the arm cheese...

I am not sure what it stands for but deployant clasps also have JBD on them so you're safe

 

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Badwolf

·Jan 8, 2020

kroro

What does "JBD" stand for? Found the same initials on the bracelet. Excuse the arm cheese...

Jet Blast Deflector 😉

 

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Canuck

·Jan 8, 2020

I have seen documentaries of watch factory processes used in engraving case backs. In one documentary, an operator was operating a pantograph which was engraving multiple case backs, all in one operation. Not a process which might result in neat, uniform engraving. I can hardly imagine that very rare person who is capable of hand engraving, turning out such a sloppy job.

 

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kroro

·Jan 8, 2020

Canuck

I have seen documentaries of watch factory processes used in engraving case backs. In one documentary, an operator was operating a pantograph which was engraving multiple case backs, all in one operation. Not a process which might result in neat, uniform engraving. I can hardly imagine that very rare person who is capable of hand engraving, turning out such a sloppy job.

So... extremely rare QA error case back? 😁

Does anything on the front look weird? The text and hippocampus?

 

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kroro

·Jan 10, 2020

I've been spending unhealthy amount of time on the internet the last couple of days scrounging for more information about my mysterious caseback. I'm completely new to the Speedmaster game and just now stumbled upon the late Chuck Maddox's website. Apparently he came across one of these casebacks back in 2005 and had a lengthy discussion on his website how this could never be an Omega original part... that is until in 2008 a user named quatre_temps on WUS got a new caseback for his Speedy, opened it up to find that his "original, factory fresh, untampered caseback had a child like messy stencil that looked like a 2yr old got at it with a scalpel"!

Long story short - you can read Chuck's original post and the update from WUS here: http://chronomaddox.com/omega/articles/always_ask/always_ask.html.
Direct links to quatre_temps' threads on WUS:
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/i-think-i-might-have-corrected-chuck-maddox-119406.html
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/*aaugh-*-there-absolutely-no-method-omegas-madness-125854.html

So it seems that my caseback is indeed original and nothing to worry about. Just too bad that the threads on WUS are so old that all the images have disappeared. Would have been interesting to see other engraved casebacks similar to mine.

 

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Pilot85

·Jan 12, 2020

It looks like a nice watch congrats.

I will say this is not a 145.0022 but a 3570.50 tritium.
Based on the Rhodium movement and the Short S on the Dial.
The bracelet and endlinks are correct for this as well. So only that engraving in the back case is what I don’t like but is hidden so who cares 😀

Enjoy it it has a beautiful Patina.

 

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padders

·Jan 12, 2020·Oooo subtitles!

Pilot85

It looks like a nice watch congrats.

I will say this is not a 145.0022 but a 3570.50 tritium.
Based on the Rhodium movement and the Short S on the Dial.
The bracelet and endlinks are correct for this as well. So only that engraving in the back case is what I don’t like but is hidden so who cares 😀

Enjoy it it has a beautiful Patina.

Well strictly speaking it is both. The PIC was introduced at the end of the 1980s to identify the full retail package, the case number is and always was a descriptor of the function of the model, dial colour etc. That speedmaster is indeed a 3570.50.00 but still can be described by its case number. Try ordering parts by PIC alone and you will see how useful a case number is. The tritium 3570 is pretty rare, only made for less than a year AFAIK circa 1997.

Edited: Jan 12, 2020