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13ZN Chronographs Inquiries and Information.

alphabeta81
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LarryG LarryG
My point then as now, not a steal...

To back up your anecdotal comment, can you find a 5699 original dial that went for LESS? Please share, thanks!
 
LarryG
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Please share what constitutes "a steal" if watch fails to sell at one auction, reaches a price not far from where it is currently offered at another? Thanks!
 
LarryG
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Don't want to appear brusque or rude, and I recognize that taxes do add to offered price on ebay. But if it was indeed a steal there would be no shortage of bidders even with awareness of auction sale price.
 
alphabeta81
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I figured you would not be able to cite another example cheaper =)

To clarify - I believe the $31,250 price is a steal, not this eBay price. Now, $25k would be something more than a steal and more like highway robbery and a criminally low price.

I believe, after tracking the history of 5699 sales, getting one with an original dial, clean movement, and overpolished case, is relatively unheard of at $30,000 or close. I cannot find another good example - even with a patina filled dial like this - even at $35,000 all in.

This watch failed to sell at $40,000 low estimate, was re relisted, and sold for $31,250. Big price difference. It's now listed on eBay at $40,000 all in with US tax, and is not selling. What constitutes a steal? By my definition, when you get a watch that is worth closer to $38-40k for $31k, AND you buy a reference for basically the lowest price it has ever gotten. Yup, a steal.

The word "steal" is so subjective that it creates largely unnecessary debates -- I heard the other say someone saying a Patek 5711 at $30k is a steal, when in reality that watch at $45k is a steal, but one could argue that paying that much above retail is never a steal, and so on.

Let's settle on - this example is the best price seen on a original dial clean movement 5699, to the point where LarryG nor others can find any counterexample to disprove that =)
 
DirtyDozen12
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@Sirbjorn If I recall correctly, this 13ZN has been for sale for some time now. The photography in the listing certainly does not help. Dial and hands look correct. Of course, dial is not in great condition. It would be nice to see some photos in brighter, natural light as the overall appearance looks a bit washed out. As you stated, the crown is incorrect. It will be interesting to know the price. I do no think that there is a huge demand for worn, gold 13ZN's of this type. Here is a neat one for well under $10K USD: https://www.ebay.com/itm/LONGINES-F...415582?hash=item421a6124de:g:aHYAAOSw3wZe81zi
 
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Sirbjorn
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DirtyDozen12 DirtyDozen12
@Sirbjorn If I recall correctly, this 13ZN has been for sale for some time now. The photography in the listing certainly does not help. Dial and hands look correct. Of course, dial is not in great condition. It would be nice to see some photos in brighter, natural light as the overall appearance looks a bit washed out. As you stated, the crown is incorrect. It will be interesting to know the price. I do no think that there is a huge demand for worn, gold 13ZN's of this type. Here is a neat one for well under $10K USD: https://www.ebay.com/itm/LONGINES-F...415582?hash=item421a6124de:g:aHYAAOSw3wZe81zi

Thanks for sharing link - very clean dial design, not one that I have see before, almost feels ahead of its time! Is it a common dial design?

The seller got back to me and asking price is 9.5k EUR, which feels pricey. Are the flat type crowns from Longines possible to find either from Longines themselves or on ebay in your experience?
 
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Mark020
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alphabeta81 alphabeta81
At 32,150 CHF, I think that is a pretty damn good deal for a 5699 with original dial.
I still think that too 😁
 
DirtyDozen12
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Sirbjorn Sirbjorn
Thanks for sharing link - very clean dial design, not one that I have see before, almost feels ahead of its time! Is it a common dial design?

The seller got back to me and asking price is 9.5k EUR, which feels pricey. Are the flat type crowns from Longines possible to find either from Longines themselves or on ebay in your experience?
No, not a common dial design.

Agreed, 9.5K EUR is not a steal. A correct crown will be tough to find. Longines has them but will not supply to individuals without sending the watch for a costly service/restoration.
 
Syrte
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And while we’re at it, here’s the Phillips example....
 
0C2C8965-C945-48B8-A2BD-C277A75975DC.png
DirtyDozen12
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Below is a 13ZN that is for sale here: https://www.cosimo-watches.com/for-sale/longines-13zn-flyback-chronograph-ref-4994-from-1943 Apart from the incorrect crown (too small) and mismatched minute counter hand, the watch appears decent at a glance. However, this dial did not originally come in this watch. The dial you see was sold on eBay in 2019 and swapped into this watch at some point between then and now (see photo of dial further below). It also appears that the dial is the wrong size for the case. Could the present dealer have unknowingly purchased the watch after the dial swap had already occurred? Yes. Regardless, buyers beware.

Thanks to @alphabeta81 for pointing out the watch and noticing the ill-fitment of the dial.

upload_2020-8-31_23-30-30.png upload_2020-8-31_23-31-28.png upload_2020-8-31_23-31-51.png upload_2020-8-31_23-32-19.png upload_2020-8-31_23-32-40.png upload_2020-8-31_23-33-13.png upload_2020-8-31_23-34-18.png Stern3.JPG
 
Dan S
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Seems to be the same dial as in my 5020?

Edit: No sorry, not exactly the same. The sub-dial positions are different relative to the outer tracks. But quite similar.

IMG_4444.jpeg
 
maanu
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Dan S Dan S
Seems to be the same dial as in my 5020?

Edit: No sorry, not exactly the same. The sub-dial positions are different relative to the outer tracks. But quite similar.

IMG_4444.jpeg
Beautiful pickup @Dan S
 
K
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Hi all - is it possible for a signed crown to be original to a 13ZN? My guess would be no, as I have only ever seen unsigned crowns on 13ZNs.
 
DirtyDozen12
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K kree
Hi all - is it possible for a signed crown to be original to a 13ZN? My guess would be no, as I have only ever seen unsigned crowns on 13ZNs.
I would say, no. Signed crowns are not even prevalent on 30CH until the late 1950's.
 
MSS
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Hey guys, sorry in advance for the quality of the picture but my question is essentially related to the consistency of the lugs/dial with the movement. The seller claims this is an original 13zn and the movement is in fact a 13zn. This is a Fab Suisse dial with the fancy lugs that I think are more commonly found on the 30CH. So I am basically afraid that this is a recase or some franken-thing of the kind. Any thoughts? Thanks a lot in advance for your help

13zn.jpg
 
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