Speedmaster 145.022 69 ST with Red Center Chronograph Hand - information sought

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As a final comment from me on this thread, I wanted to post a picture of what exactly was meant by those Watchuseek posters about “authentic” red seconds hands on vintage Speedmasters.



As you can see, it is a different color red (more orange), is slab-shaped with no lume, and looks nothing like the hand on your watch. If yours looked like this, we might believe it was original.


Is that an Ultraman iteration or something else?
 
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This whole thing is hilarious. 🍿 like my mama used to say "There's no one more blind than he who refuses to see".

Its still a good watch, isn't that enough?

Another side note: I want to get a Jedi now after reading the other thread. Anyone selling? 😁
 
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This whole thing is hilarious. 🍿 like my mama used to say "There's no one more blind than he who refuses to see".

Its still a good watch, isn't that enough?

Another side note: I want to get a Jedi now after reading the other thread. Anyone selling? 😁

Did you want the upside down markers prototype slipped out of the Omega factory after beers on a Friday night in spring one, or the complete different model real Jedi watch 😗
 
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Still a great watch. The bones are there. With some effort, you'd have an exceptional example.
 
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I think Omega in US had an inferior quality and they broke the design code, so many puzzling US only models

I don't think anyone can refute painted hands, they are all painted, some models have this low quality paint, for example google "162.010 blue"




^ I'd assume this was a redial, up close these kind of hands look hand painted, they aren't uniform

Who can guarantee that Omega in US didn't actually commit heresy and released a model with after painted hands? No one, unless you have a recording of all models sold
 
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I think Omega in US had an inferior quality and they broke the design code, so many puzzling US only models

I don't think anyone can refute painted hands, they are all painted, some models have this low quality paint, for example google "162.010 blue"




^ I'd assume this was a redial, up close these kind of hands look hand painted, they aren't uniform

Who can guarantee that Omega in US didn't actually commit heresy and released a model with after painted hands? No one, unless you have a recording of all models sold

Not only overpainted but the pivots painted as well? Not happening and that's a guarantee. Why the subdial hands, too? Just not happening.
 
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For example Subaru in Japan has excellent quality, but they have a US plant with highly inferior quality, the windshields crack randomly on cars etc.

To be honest given the evidence I believe it's not original as well, but it's possible to have an Omega far below Swiss quality and outside design principles because it wasn't made in Switzerland, so the possibility is always there, and my point is it's never "not happening" - it happens
 
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Who can guarantee that Omega in US didn't actually commit heresy and released a model with after painted hands? No one, unless you have a recording of all models sold

I think the onus is on someone to prove it came from the factory this way, not the opposite. I would be happy for the OP if this were real, but honestly all the wishful thinking and theorizing isn’t going to make it come true...
 
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For example Subaru in Japan has excellent quality, but they have a US plant with highly inferior quality, the windshields crack randomly on cars etc.

To be honest given the evidence I believe it's not original as well, but it's possible to have an Omega far below Swiss quality and outside design principles because it wasn't made in Switzerland, so the possibility is always there, and my point is it's never "not happening" - it happens

Is there an Omega factory in the US or any other country? Branded dials were sourced from a single location. Which bracelet or strap the watch went home with was more fluid back in the day, certainly. Who would do this type of overpaint at he behest of a customer? Not Omega.
 
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Is there an Omega factory in the US or any other country? Branded dials were sourced from a single location. Which bracelet or strap the watch went home with was more fluid back in the day, certainly. Who would do this type of overpaint at he behest of a customer? Not Omega.

I don’t know a factory is the right word, but yes, I assume many separate workshops and local cases, dials/hands I’m not sure, but definitely cases and local variations

It’s not really about OP though, for all I know he could even be a high level troll, but for me, it’s more about the depth of possibilities out there

Who’s to say a person working at one of these workshops didn’t took the initiative and produced a couple abominations?

It was a wild and imaginative time with an extreme amount of unique models
 
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I don’t know a factory is the right word, but yes, I assume many separate workshops and local cases, dials/hands I’m not sure, but definitely cases and local variations

It’s not really about OP though, for all I know he could even be a high level troll, but for me, it’s more about the depth of possibilities out there

Who’s to say a person working at one of these workshops didn’t took the initiative and produced a couple abominations?

It was a wild and imaginative time with an extreme amount of unique models
Stop giving him false hope, you are clutching at straws like the OP. I can think of only one recognised Speedmaster model that received major local alterations, and that was in Italy not the USA. Can you provide examples that were modified or customised in the USA and yet are still considered as legitimate variations?
 
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Stop giving him false hope, you are clutching at straws like the OP. I can think of only one recognised Speedmaster model that received major local alterations, and that was in Italy not the USA. Can you provide examples that were modified or customised in the USA and yet are still considered as legitimate variations?

Yes this watch, a Constellation - this is a US model, normally Constellation's don't have fully slopped painted hands like this


Also take a second and try to understand what I'm saying, you misunderstand and continue blabbering

You just look at things from a very limited perspective, the simplest truth is someone made this, and if it happens to be someone at an Omega workshop, it could make the watch legit

The watch I shared appears as a paint job, but I've later stumbled on around 5 other examples

Unlikely for a Constellation to go so under the radar but it can, seems almost impossible for a Speedmaster, but it could

Once again I'm not saying the watch is original, I believe it's a custom job too, however you all make god like assumptions and verdicts, and we're all just people, people who work at Omega are just people too, so less hubris more open minds please
 
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Note I said Speedmaster. I’m well aware of the Norman Morris domestic models but the OP watch isn’t one of those and AFAIK there were no local Speedmasters made or modified in the US.

Not sure it is me that is blabbering here mate but feel free to play the man rather than the ball if it makes you happy
 
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I'm just curious 😀

Thanks for the information
 
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Once again I'm not saying the watch is original, I believe it's a custom job too, however you all make god like assumptions and verdicts, and we're all just people, people who work at Omega are just people too, so less hubris more open minds please

I think we are all just saying that rather than unproven theories about previously unknown Omega workshops in the US that were making poorly painted custom hands on Speedmasters, the more simple and obvious answer is that this has nothing to do with Omega.

 
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The way the paint covers the pivots makes it seem to me like it hasn't been serviced since being painted, or else the seal the paint formed would likely (though maybe not certainly) be broken. I wonder if the last watchmaker to work on it repainted them either by request or on their own? Perhaps the original finish was damaged during service. Not to blame the watchmaker, necessarily, but it's one explanation for why the original owner would be unaware. The quality of the job seems consistent with someone who might damage hands during removal.

I know nothing of Speedmasters, but I think I gather from comments above that this shape of hand was sometimes red, but never (in the vast, deep, experience of the truly expert members of this forum) painted over the lume. If the original owner's memory is correct, perhaps it was originally red with lume but then poorly repainted. Is that possible?

In any case, it's a wonderful watch and an extremely generous gift. If you feel like sharing what you've written up about the original owner, I'd read it.
 
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If the original owner's memory is correct, perhaps it was originally red with lume but then poorly repainted. Is that possible?

If you seriously want to go that route then who is to say for sure one way or another that any one of our vintage Omegas might have had a red second hand that was changed out for a common color hand at a past service. Should one suggest that possibility in a for sale ad to spiff things up?
 
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Should one suggest that possibility in a for sale ad to spiff things up?
No way. Just pointing out that since the hands were pretty clearly repainted (and stripped of at least some paint) after leaving the store, it seems unlikely that the original owner just forgot that the hand wasn't red. So I guess I'm just giving a theory that reconciles the story with the expert observations. That said, it could have been badly painted at the store and then badly repainted years later. Who knows? But no, regarding value and sales description, seems to me that badly repainted is badly repainted regardless of who did it and when.

Edit: so to be clear, to the OP, even if it were originally red, the value that added is lost due to the fact that it (and every other hand) was repainted, which is again pretty clear from all the evidence the experts here have pointed to.
Edited:
 
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Even if the watch had perfect non-repainted original hands including a perfect red second hand with proper lume showing, still no one here would think it's as it left the factory unless an archive extract spelled out clearly that it had a red second hand. And one can bet the farm that isn't going to happen.