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Zodiac seawolf around 1970 :-(, my watchmaker gave up on me!! Cal 70-72 help needed

Kargol
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Dear vintage watch lovers of the OF,
First of all I don’t know if I am allowed to seek this kind of help in Omega Forums, so please delete my thread, or advise me how to write the following things better, in an accepted way to the forum.
During the last year I have been daily encountering problems fixing my zodiac seawolf with a problem on the automatic system (as my watchmaker describes).
By the time I bought it I noticed strange “grinding”noise when I winded it. However it worked OK. I decided to give it a service and change any parts needed, because I love it and I want to make it work like new. From the first day I took it to my WM I had problems with the parts. At first I was advised to cancel the automatic function and make it work just by manual winding it, because sth on the automatic parts touched the mechanism and my WM told me it will be destroyed if we leave the automatic working. I didn’t want that, so I asked him to tell me what parts he needed so we fix everything. Unfortunately I did all the research by myself, and it was a big pain finding these parts , because I am just a collector and don’t know anything about where to get this things, or even buy them at a fair price. Finally I found some guy in India who had Zodiac 70-72 NOS parts .
The first parts I bought were two gears for the automatic (part 1488 and part 1530). My WM changed this gears but still the watch didn’t work right. The second attempt and my WM’s advise, was to buy parts 407, 410, 415, 420, 1482. He also changed all these parts also but still the watch is not fixed, thus my WM gave up on me. He couldn’t spend more hours...
I don’t know what exactly is happening, by my guess is that my WM doesn’t have any idea what’s exactly wrong with my watch. Fortunately he gave up and told me not to buy other parts and try to find some other WM , so that I don’t spend my money without reason.
I am really in love with this watch. Until this day it has costed me a small fortune but it’s still not fixed.
Any help will be highly appreciated or any recommendation of a WM who is experienced in this 79-72. Anybody can send me a pm I guess if recommending watchmakers is not allowed , or you can just reply with your thoughts.
I would prefer to send the watch in EU, but if no European watchmaker can help me , I can discuss shipping it outside the European borders .

3B3BD0D0-6B3F-419D-8C09-FD6D5090645A.jpeg 5E1A04B4-1540-47A9-83EA-A3B4EAD424FC.png 8192223F-61DB-46F2-8EC2-3E8238327811.jpeg
Edited:
 
redpcar
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First thing to do is find another watchmaker. Get his opinion. A competent person with the older Zodiac movements should be able to tell you up front what is needed.
upload_2020-1-24_16-38-0.png
 
Kargol
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redpcar redpcar
First thing to do is find another watchmaker. Get his opinion.
upload_2020-1-24_16-38-0.png
Thanks for your reply.
That is exactly what I am trying to do here with this post
 
redpcar
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Other than a referral, we will need more information. It's painful to get the back off these. Do you have any pics of the movement?
 
Kargol
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Undo I have only these two but my WM keeps archives for me so probably tomorrow I can send more:
6257EA7B-743A-4CE6-9F58-4495F5DCDFFA.jpeg 65B4537A-D3D7-48AB-9E81-6066579A4B4E.jpeg
 
redpcar
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Usually when things get wonky with the counterweight, it's axle related.
 
Kargol
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redpcar redpcar
Did you replace the rotor axle? p/n 1504 above

upload_2020-1-24_16-51-8.png
I think I didn’t buy this part. I bought these : 1488, 1530,
407, 410, 415, 420, 1482
 
Kargol
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redpcar redpcar
Usually when things get wonky with the counterweight, it's axle related.
Ok I will tell him. And I hope he starts working again, but he is also sad and bored with me I think ...
 
watchyouwant
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Use Google to search for your movement. Zodiac 70. Then you get many different makers, that used this base Schild movement. Then search for your Schild movement and no matter which maker, find one for sale, that is serviced. Buy that one for maybe less than $100 and change the rotor only. Voila. Good luck. Kind regards. Achim
 
Kargol
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watchyouwant watchyouwant
Use Google to search for your movement. Zodiac 70. Then you get many different makers, that used this base Schild movement. Then search for your Schild movement and no matter which maker, find one for sale, that is serviced. Buy that one for maybe less than $100 and change the rotor only. Voila. Good luck. Kind regards. Achim
Yeap, done than been there. I ve never found this movement for sale and believe me I have searched everywhere . Also and the zodiacs with this movement are priced like gold nowadays .
Although I don’t know all the watches that use this movement , but I have tried some zodiacs
 
JwRosenthal
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I ran into similar issue with my first Zodiac Seawolf, but had the opposite problem- auto wind was fine but manual winding fet like gravel. My watchmaker did a full CLA and even did the same research on the AS compatible parts. The problem was the winding pinion and gear. He tracked down the pinion and gear for a “compatible” GP movement and it didn’t fit. At that point he had done all he could- he was done.

Apparently Zodiac did some proprietary changes to this movement that are Zodiac specific- so I found out- just like you have. It doesn’t matter what ranft says about compatibility- if it was a Zodiac specific tweak, it throws the compatibility lists out the window when you are trying to fit a part that says it should fit but it doesn’t- hearsay doesn’t matter.
Luckily these movements were used in other Zodiac watches. I found someone on eBay parting out a 70-72 and had a list of parts with prices- I specified the pinion (which was the real problem as it was missing a tooth), he sent both pinion and gear- winds like silk now.

Don’t give up- these watches are very special despite them not being worth much in the grand scheme of collectible watches. Your best bet as suggested before is to find another Zodiac with a 70-72 and buy the whole watch. Hopefully the donor movement will have less or other issues that will allow you to make your Seawolf whole again.
Edited:
 
wagudc
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Kargol Kargol
Ok I will tell him. And I hope he starts working again, but he is also sad and bored with me I think ...

I think redpcar has your answer

redpcar redpcar
First thing to do is find another watchmaker.
upload_2020-1-24_16-38-0.png
 
Kargol
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redpcar redpcar
You can always take a chance on something like this:

upload_2020-1-24_17-10-33.png
Thank you for your research my friend, But the description says clearly that it’s not running! Would you take a chance ?
 
Kargol
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
I ran into similar issue with my first Zodiac Seawolf, but had the opposite problem- auto wind was fine but manual winding fet like gravel. My watchmaker did a full CLA and even did the same research on the AS compatible parts. The problem was the winding pinion and gear. He tracked down the pinion and gear for a “compatible” GP movement and it didn’t fit. At that point he had done all he could- he was done.

Apparently Zodiac did some proprietary changes to this movement that are Zodiac specific- so I found out- just like you have. It doesn’t matter what ranft says about compatibility- if it was a Zodiac specific tweak, it throws the compatibility lists out the window when you are trying to fit a part that says it should fit but it doesn’t- heresy doesn’t matter.
Luckily these movements were used in other Zodiac watches. I found someone on eBay parting out a 70-72 and had a list of parts with prices- I specified the pinion (which was the real problem as it was missing a tooth), he sent both pinion and gear- winds like silk now.

Don’t give up- these watches are very special despite them not being worth much in the grand scheme of collectible watches. Your best bet as suggested before is to find another Zodiac with a 70-72 and buy the whole watch. Hopefully the donor movement will have less or other issues that will allow you to make your Seawolf whole again.
I think I have almost the same problem. The manual winding makes the grinding noise . The watch works well in automatic ...
than you for your detailed reply and your kindness to write for me my friend
 
JwRosenthal
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Kargol Kargol
I think I have almost the same problem. The manual winding makes the grinding noise . The watch works well in automatic ...
than you for your detailed reply and your kindness to write for me my friend
The term that was used for the part that was my issue was the “clutch wheel” & “sliding pinion”. At least according to the listing from which I bought it. I paid $25 for both parts and the watch runs/ winds perfectly now

This was the offending part- and it meshes with a flat gear that has teeth. The GP/AS compatible part was very different looking.

23E133B5-4AEC-4C5C-8C32-A741F97B2DE3.jpeg 58A4E5BA-15E7-4A43-B7B4-98AE9C654FE9.jpeg F9FA9E2F-E9D1-4D7F-B687-42584FA0B5F3.jpeg
 
Kargol
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
The term that was used for the part that was my issue was the “clutch wheel” & “sliding pinion”. At least according to the listing from which I bought it. I paid $25 for both parts and the watch runs/ winds perfectly now

This was the offending part- and it meshes with a flat gear that has teeth. The GP/AS compatible part was very different looking.

23E133B5-4AEC-4C5C-8C32-A741F97B2DE3.jpeg 58A4E5BA-15E7-4A43-B7B4-98AE9C654FE9.jpeg F9FA9E2F-E9D1-4D7F-B687-42584FA0B5F3.jpeg
I wish I had these parts in numbers ...
 
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