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  1. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Mar 2, 2013

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  2. MMMD unaffiliated curmudgeonly absurdist & polyologist Mar 2, 2013

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    I would say the movement discussed here has found a home.
     
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  3. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Mar 2, 2013

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    Good spot. Gotta stop killing the memory cells.....::beer::
     
  4. Xeer Jun 17, 2018

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    upload_2018-6-18_1-40-51.png

    Saw this in Instagram a moment ago. Not sure if it has been discussed previously. Interesting one.

    Quick Google search gave me this:

    upload_2018-6-18_1-42-53.png
     
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  5. Northernman Lemaniac Jun 17, 2018

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    Manfred Rössler has a UG based Tri-compax listed in his book on Zenith:
    1F72526B-C071-4AE6-8EBC-53F2AD37AC2B.jpeg DD04FD22-0D8A-4C83-B0FE-D297D5BAB544.jpeg
     
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  6. vujen Jun 17, 2018

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    Very nice and rare watches.
     
  7. Dan S Jun 17, 2018

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    Gorgeous watch. A minor point, but I wouldn't say that a Zenith with a cal 156 is "UG-based". I believe that both Zenith and UG independently used Martel movements.
     
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  8. MMMD unaffiliated curmudgeonly absurdist & polyologist Jun 17, 2018

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    This guy gets it :thumbsup:
     
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  9. Northernman Lemaniac Jun 18, 2018

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    The history of Martel and UG is clear.
    However I will maintain that the watch in Rösslers book is UG based.
    It does not only share the movement with UG. The case and dial is also a UG design.
    Basically a UG rebranded as Zenith.

    From Sala’s book on UG:
    931986C2-9D97-4DF0-A378-D10B48769186.jpeg
    (Lack of photographs refer to what he found in the UG photo archives, not in general).
     
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  10. Dan S Jun 18, 2018

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    Very interesting! I never knew about that connection.
     
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  11. Northernman Lemaniac Jun 18, 2018

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    Sala's book on UG is warmly recommended. It contains a separate chapter on UG watches sold under other brand names. Several advertisements for Zenith - UG chronographs are included.
    One from the web:
    [​IMG]
     
  12. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Jun 18, 2018

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    The Zenith-Universal link is longstanding and deeper than UG's other "ghost authored" chronographs for JLC, GP and others. The documentary evidence is ample.

    I agree that is is largely an academic question if Zenith used Martel's movements independently (before 1950 at least). I would argue that Zenith chronographs of the period are UG-derived, simply because they carry UG-pattern case reference and serial numbers that have nothing to do with the serial numbers and references we see for clearly in-house Zenith pieces, but fit very well into the UG sequences. In the end, we are debating whether the Martel factory shipped its output directly to Zenith, or to UG which shipped them on to Zenith with cases or already cased. I favor the latter, for the above reason, and since the cases are unmistakably UG designs (from the various suppliers UG bought them from, of course). Many of the cases are found in both UG and Zenith chronographs (the Jeanneret springs to mind), each sporting different reference numbers.

    Mostly. A muddy period occurs in the 1950s, after UG cut Martel loose to focus on its microrotor investment, and before Zenith brought it in house. @MMMD can show off some Martel-branded product from the period, but curiously, I have yet to see a Martel branded chronograph, which leads me to believe they were still supplying one or both houses under contract.
     
    Edited Jun 18, 2018
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  13. Vitezi Jun 18, 2018

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    By this, you mean a Martel branded movement inside a Martel branded chronograph?
     
  14. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Jun 18, 2018

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    Yes, if you have images of one, I'd love to see it. I have seen Martel moonphase calendars with the cal 291, Universal name drilled out.
     
  15. MMMD unaffiliated curmudgeonly absurdist & polyologist Jun 18, 2018

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  16. Northernman Lemaniac Jun 18, 2018

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    And then there’s the Excelsior Park made Zeniths as well.

    D50A7C1E-7345-48DF-8A6A-910B9A1D0AA0.jpeg
     
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  17. Dan S Jun 18, 2018

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    When I look at this, I forget all about the tri-compax! :)
     
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