You really never know what someone else is going through...

amiriqbal · Jul 19, 2018

Wryfox
My point was to boil it down to what I consider to be a logically obvious understanding, with a dash of facetiousness, nothing more.

I can't reply to this as definitely, or eloquently, as @M'Bob did. He hasn't left too much else to say!!

However this article may be of interest:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/real-men-dont-write-blogs/201406/why-we-dont-give-each-other-break?amp

It is a good summary of the principle we are talking about.

The whole point is that this is not a 'logically obvious understanding' until it is pointed out, either by a powerful anecdote, as per @M'Bob, or by applying a label and definition to a recurrent observed human behaviour.

If we are made aware of this default bias, within us all, then the hope is that we can enter situations forewarned, that although we may think we know what someone is about (and we may be right), as we can not read minds, or have overview of situational/contextual factors, we should strive to 'think the best' and try and not be mired to immediately assume observed behavior = character

amiriqbal · Jul 19, 2018

Wryfox
With all due respect, this is common sense, well actually just human nature. I'm surprised (not surprised) there is a Psychologist term for it.

If you have no other evidence on which to base an alternate conclusion, one must take the demonstrated bad behavior at face value and conclude a person was in fact being rude/inconsiderate, etc. ie some people are just jerks, and I'm sure there is a clever psychologist term for that too. 🤨

You have totally missed the point of what is being talked about here. The point is; it is generally impossible to have evidence to explain behaviours in people we do not know. How can we possibly have any access to what is going on in their life or their mind?

Due to this deficit of supplemental information, we should actually refrain from taking 'demonstrated bad behaviour at face value' as it is a judgement based on extremely limited and incomplete information.

Of course our judgement has the chance of being correct but it has been shown we overestimate this and, more often than not, it has the equal chance of being incorrect.

This is the point. Challenging our biases will make us treat each better, hopefully make the world better, and allow us to think in more rational ways and make better decisions.

If that doesn't interest you then fair enough 😀

Edward53 · Jul 20, 2018

Speaking as a disinterested observer of this thread, it seems to me that @Wryfox is simply saying that whilst there are sometimes extenuating circumstances, most of the time if someone behaves like a jerk that's because they are, with the added implication that you'd have to be some kind of superhuman saint to make allowance for them every single time. Which seems to me like a fair point with no grounds for finger-jabbing, but what do I know? I'm not a psychologist.

amiriqbal · Jul 20, 2018

Hi @Edward53

Your point is a perfectly valid viewpoint and a common way of thinking. However the posited area of contention, is a challenge to this and indeed thinking of things the opposite way; that most people are decent and 'jerk like behavior ' is generally due to situational factors/context most of the time

If you have a click on the article link above, it explains it better than I can, in an easy to read format.

Behavioural science and psychology are not exact quantative disciplines such as maths or physics.

They are not black and white, much like life, and humans are complex beings with multifactorial reasons behind why they act certain ways.

I have a keen interest in behavioural and Social psychology so this is only my take on the thread started by the OP, by applying my own knowledge framework and belief system.

It is not the 'right', or only way to think/approach such situations but I believe this approach does inherently make people feel less annoyed, and unhappy, in life, both with other people and within themselves.

I'm speaking from my own personal journey and, though my own research, simply sharing some of the principles I've found helpful in applying for myself in the pursuit of happiness 😀

If its useful for others then that's a bonus 😀

Faz · Jul 20, 2018

sdre
I remember this old saying,

“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle,” - Plato

............. 😀

I just wonder how to do this with the hundreds of drivers who cut me off in my 40 ton truck to get out at the next exit...🙁

M'Bob · Jul 20, 2018

amiriqbal
If you have a click on the article link above it explains it better than I can in an easy to read format.

It really is an excellent article, and it brings to light the additional fact that the behavior we often criticize, we have done ourselves, only we believe when we have done it, it was justified, but not when someone else does it.

gostang9 · Jul 20, 2018

My personal belief is that people generally tend to assume others behave and think as they do themselves.

The kind/generous person would tend to assume bad behavior from others must have some special cause since the person is likely kind and generous as they are. The rude/jerkish person would tend to assume bad behaviors from others must simply reflect the kind of person the other is because that's they kind of person they are.

We also tend to find and see what we're looking for. If I think people in general are good and kind, i will look for and find lots of evidence around me that people are indeed good and kind (because of course many people are and do behave in such ways). if I think people are in general assholes, I will look for and find lots of evidence around me to support this also (because of course there are examples of this as well).

I remember a great story told by the late Dr. Wayne Dyer about a family who moved into a new neighborhood. The new neighbor asked someone in the neighborhood what kind of neighborhood it was. The person replied, "what was it like where you came from?". the new neighbor replied, "Oh, it was great!" and went on with examples of how great it was. "Oh, I think you'll find the same thing here..." was the response.
Some time later, another new family moved in and asked the same neighbor what kind of neighborhood it was. The person again replied, "what was it like where you came from?". The second new neighbor replied, "It was terrible!..." and went on with examples why it was bad. "Oh, I'm sure you'll find the same thing here..." was the response. (it's a classic tale I think, but illustrates the point very well...)

Faz · Jul 20, 2018

M'Bob
Yesterday, at the gym, I was doing squats, and a guy I know from my community, who doesn't know me, walked over when I was between sets, standing right there, and pulled off weights from the end of my bar to place on his bar for bench presses. A clear violation of gym etiquette.

So I walked over to him, and I said, "Were you certain when you took those weights off my bar that I was finished using them?" He told me he was distracted, and sincerely apologized. Me thinking, geez, what a dip-shit.

My wife calls me this morning, to tell me that this guy's son is in the hospital, gravely ill. So, it turns out, he had a right to be distracted, and I, in fact, am the dip-shit.

I post this only to remind everyone to cut somebody some slack, even if they're acting poorly, because you never know what's going on in their lives. And, it could be you one day who needs the break...

These days, having empathy as a first reaction is quite difficult in this nutty world. Learning something after a missed opportunity to be nice, is an indelible experience. Now that is precious. In the end, you've shown your good heart and humility. Cheers...

M'Bob · Jul 20, 2018

Faz
I just wonder how to do this with the hundreds of drivers who cut me off in my 40 ton truck to get out at the next exit...🙁

A fair comment, given your profession. I would just ask, have you ever been a bit behind the clock on a route, and had to push a bit on your rig? That somebody who looked like an inconsiderate slob to you, could have been you to them.

We all do this, and that's the point. I honk like an asshole to the lady in front of me who's taking her sweet time on the exit when I'm late, yet if I'm chilling a bit on the road cuz I'm on time, and get honked at, I think, what a f**king asshole.

At the the end of the day, if we all cut ONE person a break, think how much better things would be.

M'Bob · Jul 20, 2018

Faz
These days, having empathy as a first reaction is quite difficult in this nutty world. Learning something after a missed opportunity to be nice, is an indelible experience. Now that is precious. In the end, you've shown your good heart and humility. Cheers...

Thank you for your kind thoughts.

M'Bob · Jul 20, 2018

gostang9
My personal belief is that people generally tend to assume others behave and think as they do themselves.

A great post and if true, I'm in bigger trouble than I originally thought. Because my general posture is to go out of my way to cut people a break. But regardless of that, I do, secretly think that the world is mostly full of inconsiderate assholes.

So: either I'm not being as nice to people as I thought; or (I hope...), I haven't previously given enough appreciation to the fact that everyone, on some level, is suffering, and carrying a burden.

Faz · Jul 20, 2018

Likewise fair comment.

Since I don't have a predetermined route and rarely a fixed appointment, no. But there are certainly other truck drivers who do and I've witnessed those. Assholeness is everywhere.

As drivers, we all sin here and there. Truck drivers are no exception. But my general observation is that too many passenger car drivers are so selfish, they take incredible risks to get a car length, or a minute ahead. when I was a railway worker, trying to beat a train at a public crossing at grade was epidemic...and many times fatal. It's hard to hold your cool at such stupid behaviour. As a truck driver, because I'm slow and cumbersome, they'll cut me off and slam the brakes not realizing the risk their taking. Also very difficult to be nice to such recklessness.

In the days of Plato, people didn't have the cocoon of a car to protect their idiocy

M'Bob · Jul 20, 2018

Faz
In the days of Plato, people didn't have the cocoon of a car to protect their idiocy

So true, and you raise another very important facet to all this: if one is stupid, and either doesn't know it, or knows it, and refuses to change, then it's hard to improve our collective lot, isn't it?

ulackfocus · Jul 20, 2018

There's another cocoon involved here - this forum is a shelter from the real world. Most members are intelligent and have decent jobs, so they're above average. However, we're talking about the actions of the general public. Have any of you really looked at what's going on out there? I deal with the public every day, 11 hours a day. It is NOT nice out there. We have locations that we go through managers almost as fast as we can hire & train them because the clientele from that immediate area are angry assholes. If the managers don't quit, they transfer. Either way, they want nothing to do with that store anymore. I've talked with 4 of these employees who ran one particular notorious location and transferred, and all of them separately said only 1 in every 4 or 5 people who walked through the door were decent human beings. Even in our better stores situated in 'nice' neighborhoods, there is a consistent stream of jerks. Obviously not as many as 75 or 80% like in that horrible location, but running into an asshole is almost a daily occurrence in retail. Our company brass has discussed this, and we realize that we need to rotate managers in some stores to keep people from going postal.

(for those of you wondering, the lease is up on that asshole store next spring and we're going to close it)

M'Bob
So true, and you raise another very important facet to all this: if one is stupid, and either doesn't know it, or knows it, and refuses to change, then it's hard to improve our collective lot, isn't it?

George Carlin said it best: "Look at it this way: think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

M'Bob · Jul 20, 2018

U ulackfocus
There's another cocoon involved here - this forum is a shelter from the real world. Most members are intelligent and have decent jobs, so they're above average. However, we're talking about the actions of the general public. Have any of you really looked at what's going on out there? I deal with the public every day, 11 hours a day. It is NOT nice out there. We have locations that we go through managers almost as fast as we can hire & train them because the clientele from that immediate area are angry assholes. If the managers don't quit, they transfer. Either way, they want nothing to do with that store anymore. I've talked with 4 of these employees who ran one particular notorious location and transferred, and all of them separately said only 1 in every 4 or 5 people who walked through the door were decent human beings. Even in our better stores situated in 'nice' neighborhoods, there is a consistent stream of jerks. Obviously not as many as 75 or 80% like in that horrible location, but running into an asshole is almost a daily occurrence in retail. Our company brass has discussed this, and we realize that we need to rotate managers in some stores to keep people from going postal.

(for those of you wondering, the lease is up on that asshole store next spring and we're going to close it)

George Carlin said it best: "Think about this: think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that."

I do hear retail is brutal, and I can empathize with your daily experience. In my job, in health care, my patients want me to fix them, so maybe that's why they're nice to me. I think in retail, somehow customers think they're entitled to something because they have their wallets out, and they think the staff can be treated like shit. Kudos to you for not getting to the point where I read about you in the news.

Edward53 · Jul 20, 2018

gostang9
The kind/generous person would tend to assume bad behavior from others must have some special cause since the person is likely kind and generous as they are. The rude/jerkish person would tend to assume bad behaviors from others must simply reflect the kind of person the other is because that's they kind of person they are.

The realistic person would tend to assume that sometimes it's one, sometimes it's the other and sometimes it's somewhere in between. The problem lies in making the right judgement call and adjusting one's response according.

Archer · Jul 20, 2018

M'Bob
We all do this, and that's the point. I honk like an asshole to the lady in front of me who's taking her sweet time on the exit when I'm late, yet if I'm chilling a bit on the road cuz I'm on time, and get honked at, I think, what a f**king asshole.

Anyone driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone driving faster is a maniac...a common way drivers think.

M'Bob · Jul 20, 2018

Edward53
The problem lies in making the right judgement call and adjusting one's response according

But therein lies the problem: often, we don't have enough information to gauge the appropriate response, so we default to a judgement and response that's often motivated by previous experience.

Faz · Jul 20, 2018

Archer
Anyone driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone driving faster is a maniac...a common way drivers think.

from my perspective, it's more 'how' one drives slower or faster.

gostang9 · Jul 20, 2018

Edward53
The realistic person would tend to assume that sometimes it's one, sometimes it's the other and sometimes it's somewhere in between. The problem lies in making the right judgement call and adjusting one's response according.

Of course. It’s why I said each would “tend to”.

I travel a lot for work and spend time with many people from a lot of different countries and cultures. Many preconceived notions I used to have about ‘foreigners’ have been proved wrong and I’ve come to realize that people around the world are very similar. I believe there is somehow of a bell curve with a small percent of the population at the extreme lower and upper end of any trait, and the majority falling in the middle. What I tend to find is they wherever a person falls on the curve, they seem to assume more often than not that people around them are at the same point as they are. For the vast majority in the middle it means a truthful view, for the few at the low end an unrealistic view that most people are bad, and the few at the extreme top being naive and assuming most people are better than they really are.

The nice point made by the OP is great in that it reminds us not to join a single action (especially when out of the norm) and assume it reflects the true nature of that person. Anyone can exhibit behavior that contradicts their true nature. Kind people can be assholes at times and assholes can occasionally be kind.

You really never know what someone else is going through...

amiriqbal

amiriqbal

Edward53

amiriqbal

Faz

M'Bob

gostang9

Faz

M'Bob

M'Bob

M'Bob

Faz

M'Bob

ulackfocus

M'Bob

Edward53

Archer

M'Bob

Faz

gostang9

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