Will omega make a haselite-shaped sapphire crystal for the speedmaster?

saulgoodman · Nov 4, 2019

Archer
You mean something other than the domed sapphire they already have?

Nah, the "domed" sapphire they already have is more like a box. I like it, but I know where-of I speak. I own one. I'm talking about something more in the shape of the sapphire crystal on the Oris 65. If Oris can do this on a diver and keep the price respectable you would think Omega could do it as well.

rainking · Nov 4, 2019

Archer
You mean something other than the domed sapphire they already have?

I think people want to see a sapphire version of the speedy where the crystal is shaped as close as possible to the hesalite. There does seem to be an obvious difference when you compare them side by side as in the pic on the first page. I much prefer the standard Speedmaster hesalite, though.

Archer · Nov 4, 2019

Archer
You mean something other than the domed sapphire they already have?

saulgoodman
Nah, the "domed" sapphire they already have is more like a box. I like it, but I know where-of I speak. I own one. I'm talking about something more in the shape of the sapphire crystal on the Oris 65. If Oris can do this on a diver and keep the price respectable you would think Omega could do it as well.

So yes then, something other than what they do now.

I'm not sure why people keep talking about cost here - I suspect it's not relevant to why Omega does or does not do this. There are lots of more prominently domed sapphire crystals out there, and yes many of them come from brands that cost a fraction of what this Omega does. The Oris shown above is one example, my old Sin 356 Flieger II sapphire is another. Cost has nothing to do with this...

rainking · Nov 4, 2019

saulgoodman
Nah, the "domed" sapphire they already have is more like a box. I like it, but I know where-of I speak. I own one. I'm talking about something more in the shape of the sapphire crystal on the Oris 65. If Oris can do this on a diver and keep the price respectable you would think Omega could do it as well.

Anyone who has held a trilogy Railmaster in real life knows what kind of shapes Omega can create with sapphire. And no milky ring, either. That crystal is a masterpiece LOL
Point is, Omega can and already has created truly domed sapphire. It just hasn't bothered to put it on a Speedmaster yet.

saulgoodman · Nov 4, 2019

Archer
So yes then, something other than what they do now.

I'm not sure why people keep talking about cost here - I suspect it's not relevant to why Omega does or does not do this. There are lots of more prominently domed sapphire crystals out there, and yes many of them come from brands that cost a fraction of what this Omega does. The Oris shown above is one example, my old Sin 356 Flieger II sapphire is another. Cost has nothing to do with this...

I thought you were saying they already have a domed sapphire which is not really the case. At least that is how I interpreted your post. We definitely agree that it could be done better. Having said that, and with all due respect to the purists, I much prefer sapphire in any configuration over hesalite. I struggled with the decision at first, and then it came to me... for vintage clearly hesalite, but for modern speedys go with the modern material and make your life easier. Because my speedy is a daily wearer the decision was right for me. Having said that, I would love one with that Oris crystal!

Archer · Nov 4, 2019

saulgoodman
I thought you were saying they already have a domed sapphire which is not really the case. At least that is how I interpreted your post. We definitely agree that it could be done better. Having said that, and with all due respect to the purists, I much prefer sapphire in any configuration over hesalite. I struggled with the decision at first, and then it came to me... for vintage clearly hesalite, but for modern speedys go with the modern material and make your life easier. Because my speedy is a daily wearer the decision was right for me. Having said that, I would love one with that Oris crystal!

It is a domed crystal. It may not be domed enough for you, but it is certainly considered a domed crystal in watchmaking terms - in fact technically it would be a double dome, since it's domed on the inside and outside.

Duckie · Nov 4, 2019

STANDY
😗

Precisely.
Every material has it's advantages and disadvantages too.

saulgoodman · Nov 4, 2019

Archer
It is a domed crystal. It may not be domed enough for you, but it is certainly considered a domed crystal in watchmaking terms - in fact technically it would be a double dome, since it's domed on the inside and outside.

Pardon my disagreement, but those sounds like Omega talking points to me, as if the AD were trying to convince me to believe him and not my eyes. The Oris 65 is domed, no technicalities about it. The Omega, not so much.

rainking · Nov 4, 2019

saulgoodman
I struggled with the decision at first, and then it came to me... for vintage clearly hesalite, but for modern speedys go with the modern material and make your life easier. Because my speedy is a daily wearer the decision was right for me.

It's great how people can look at/consider the same decision and arrive at opposite conclusions. I wish all of my watches were plastic crystals. For one, I think it looks better. For another, while sapphire resists scratches much better than "hesalite," if you do scratch it, there's no recourse other than to spend a couple hundred bucks to replace it. And removing scratches from hesalite takes me about seven minutes, so knocking my crystal into something is not even something that bothers me.

Archer · Nov 4, 2019

saulgoodman
Pardon my disagreement, but those sounds like Omega talking points to me, as if the AD were trying to convince me to believe him and not my eyes. The Oris 65 is domed, no technicalities about it. The Omega, not so much.

You are certainly free to disagree, but those are not Omega talking points, but terminology in the general watchmaking world. And I know of what I speak - I'm a watchmaker. 😉

STANDY · Nov 4, 2019

saulgoodman
Nah, the "domed" sapphire they already have is more like a box. I like it, but I know where-of I speak. I own one. I'm talking about something more in the shape of the sapphire crystal on the Oris 65. If Oris can do this on a diver and keep the price respectable you would think Omega could do it as well.

So your at the, omega should change a watch they have produced since 1957 for you because another brand has it stage 👍

saulgoodman · Nov 4, 2019

STANDY
So your at the, omega should change a watch they have produced since 1957 for you because another brand has it stage 👍

Nope, read the thread. You missed it completely. It’s about the sapphire sandwich. No one said anything about changing the traditional hesalite version. Just a better sapphire for the sapphire version.

saulgoodman · Nov 4, 2019

Archer
You are certainly free to disagree, but those are not Omega talking points, but terminology in the general watchmaking world. And I know of what I speak - I'm a watchmaker. 😉

I think everybody knows that you’re a watchmaker. I appreciate that fact. Nevertheless, step away from the technical jargon and look at the sapphire sandwich crystal. No matter what it is called in your industry, it is boxy. Then look at the Oris 65. It is what Omega should do now that the technology exists. This is all I’m saying.

The best advice I ever received professionally from one of my mentors was make sure you see things from your client’s perspective. They are the ones that turn on our lights. I think many people wish Omega would follow that.

PS- I do enjoy the lower profile of the current sapphire crystal. Everything has its pros and cons.

Archer · Nov 4, 2019

saulgoodman
Nevertheless, step away from the technical jargon and look at the sapphire sandwich crystal. No matter what it is called in your industry, it is boxy.

You can call it jargon if you wish, but facts don’t care if you agree with them or not.

If you feel so strongly about the specific shape of their domed crystals, you should email them and suggest that they change the shape. Seeing your customers perspective is always good business practices, but if you never tell them what you want, they won’t ever get a chance to accommodate you...

saulgoodman · Nov 4, 2019

Archer
You can call it jargon if you wish, but facts don’t care if you agree with them or not.

If you feel so strongly about the specific shape of their domed crystals, you should email them and suggest that they change the shape. Seeing your customers perspective is always good business practices, but if you never tell them what you want, they won’t ever get a chance to accommodate you...

I will assume that they have people looking at these forums. It is the best way to see what the watch buyers are thinking. It is probably at least part of the reason why you are here. It is a good business practice and if they are not monitoring then they are way behind where they should be.

As for facts not caring if you agree or not, right back at you. The fact remains that the so called domed crystal (industry term) looks boxy in the real world. I’m fairly certain that I am not the only one who thinks this is the case.

ext1 · Nov 4, 2019

Archer
I looked at the prices of the sapphire crystals for the SM300 trilogy, and the sapphire Speedy Pro.

The Speedy Pro crystal is 4.8 times the price of the SM300 trilogy crystal, so I don't know who said it was "very expensive" but I would take that information with a large grain of salt.

I can't find what made me conclude it that way, but upon trying to find more info in that process I realized I probably might be wrong, so thanks for that !

So I'd like to know - initially I had the impression that domed sapphire is hard to make. But apparently it's not really hard and that domed sapphire is avoided due to extra reflection (?) what are your thoughts on this?
If domed sapphire isn't really that hard at all to make I wonder why omega doesn't offer domed sapphire in place of the current one in the speedy pro.

Duckie · Nov 4, 2019

saulgoodman
I will assume that they have people looking at these forums. It is the best way to see what the watch buyers are thinking. It is probably at least part of the reason why you are here. It is a good business practice and if they are not monitoring then they are way behind where they should be.

As for facts not caring if you agree or not, right back at you. The fact remains that the so called domed crystal (industry term) looks boxy in the real world. I’m fairly certain that I am not the only one who thinks this is the case.

I'm not necessarily across the issue of the current shape of the Saphire crystal on the Speedy moonwatch, but it seems like it has a dome shape or in my game described as a compound curve.
Quite frankly I don't see it as the critical issue because the "milky ring" effect must be caused by a more specific design issue and for me is the primary reason, out of a small number that excludes the model from an ownership perspective. Hesalite rules on all relevant metrics except one. IMO.

As mentioned previously, there are countless watches with Saphire crystals with compound curved profiles which I find are quite pleasing to the eye which i happily have two of in my collection from different brands with Omega being one of them.

With regard to manufacturers monitoring these forums. I agree that in some ways there may indeed be some merit in the practice and your assumtions may be well founded.
But we are a very small fraction of the consumer base with a very narrow focus.
More importantly, as an internet based format these forums are prone to be subject to the downsides of "Group Think" which is nearly all bad.
Without going into specifics.
On reflection a couple of instances of Group Think come to mind where it appeared as though a manufacturer has probably applied too much weight to feedback/complaints which is loosely gained from monitoring these forums which may well have lead a design re-think of a reference which fixed perceived issues and replaced the issues with another type of issue after the re-design. IMO.
In summary, any insights gained from commentary by a bunch of fanatics on the internet should be taken with large grain of salt.
A more direct approach should be taken in writing so as to lend more weight to suggestions. IMO.

Archer · Nov 4, 2019

ext1
I can't find what made me conclude it that way, but upon trying to find more info in that process I realized I probably might be wrong, so thanks for that !

So I'd like to know - initially I had the impression that domed sapphire is hard to make. But apparently it's not really hard and that domed sapphire is avoided due to extra reflection (?) what are your thoughts on this?
If domed sapphire isn't really that hard at all to make I wonder why omega doesn't offer domed sapphire in place of the current one in the speedy pro.

The current crystal is domed. It may not be the exact shape that a few people on here might want, but it is in fact domed.

Why doesn’t Omega make it “more” domed? You would have to ask them.

Duckie · Nov 4, 2019

ext1
I can't find what made me conclude it that way, but upon trying to find more info in that process I realized I probably might be wrong, so thanks for that !

So I'd like to know - initially I had the impression that domed sapphire is hard to make. But apparently it's not really hard and that domed sapphire is avoided due to extra reflection (?) what are your thoughts on this?
If domed sapphire isn't really that hard at all to make I wonder why omega doesn't offer domed sapphire in place of the current one in the speedy pro.

Of course it's harder to make.
Perhaps not in a degree of difficulty sense as the technology is well known and widely available.
But certainly more costly, and as a consequence is more subject to commercial considerations.

Duckie · Nov 4, 2019

Archer
The current crystal is domed. It may not be the exact shape that a few people on here might want, but it is in fact domed.

Why doesn’t Omega make it “more” domed? You would have to ask them.

Of course, it's a balancing act.
More domed often creates a more distorted view where as a completely flat design has none of the distortion.

Almost certainly the more domed a Saphire crystal becomes. There is bound to be more wastage of materials and more time involved in manufacture. It naturally must feed into their cost base.
I understand that the crystals are formed in a cylindrical shape then docked off to the required thickness.
The finishing must be very time consuming in order to produce dimensionally uniform and optically clear crystals fit for purpose.