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will a 562 movement from a 166.xxx case fit into a 165.xxx case?

Horologist

·Jan 18, 2025

I have a couple of running 562 movements with dials on them that came out of damaged plated brass cases. The cases they originally came out from both have the three digits 166. which is expected for the date version. .

I often keep a lookout for a replaceable 166.xxx case but so far have only found the 165.xxx non date cases at reasonable prices. I have heard of a 552 movement fitting into a 166.xxx case even though I have never tried it as I never had different model watches to try it. .

As a long shot question,( being the inverse of what I have heard), has anyone ever come across or tried placing a 562 movement into a case made for a 552?

My suspicion would be NO? as the stem hole may be a different measure from under the case rehaut from where the movement dial sits on because of the extra thickness of the date wheel which is not on the 552? However, I could be wrong!!!!! I was going to try it out if I already had a non date and a date model to share the results. Thanks for your imput! .

sheepdoll

·Jan 18, 2025

I have a number of 552 and 562 movements. Or variants of these refs.

The main issue I have when seeing if a case will fit is the dial size. There are a lot of dial variations even within a given ref.

There are cases especially the Dynamic ones what have both the 166 and 165 marking. In this area the crystal height is what differs with more space for the date.

Last week I used the fiber laser to make some dial blanks using a 563 plate. The feet on the date vs no date are quite different. The wheel trains and bridges are swappable as is the balance. I would have to check it, but I think the stem might be in the same place. The stems however and the winding pinion differ between quckset and non quick set.

The lower balance jewels also differ between the 55x and the 56x as there needs to be clearance for the date ring.

I have also learned many sellers can not tell these subtle differences. The quickest way to identify a plate is to look at the lower barrel bridge, which has a bump on the 55x and is straight on the 56x after the introduction of the quickset. So 562 is the date non quickset variation and has a unique plate. The plates intended for 551 and 564 may have a different finish than the non chronometer versions. This mostly seems to affect the lower balance jewel and the calendar bridge.

Cases for this series are hard to come by in the sub 200$ range. Especially the stainless ones. Several times I have attempted to purchase only to have the seller state they were lost of damaged. This happened last week where I got the dial and hands but not the case for a seamaster 30. The seller had created a shipping label, so they refunded everything but just sent the hands.

More often the auctions end minutes before the time when there are no bids. Some of this is my own fault for not bidding in advance. But I am cheap, even if the parts are not.

These days I am happy if I can even get a ratty plated or filled case. The problem is that often I impulse the thing only to find they are for 101x movements. Which is where the fiber and CO2 lasers come in handy. But that is not really a subject for these forums.

Horologist

·Jan 18, 2025

sheepdoll
I have a number of 552 and 562 movements. Or variants of these refs.
hese days I am happy if I can even get a ratty plated or filled case. The problem is that often I impulse the thing only to find they are for 101x movements. Which is where the fiber and CO2 lasers come in handy. But that is not really a subject for these forums.

Thanks for your detailed response which answers a lot of other questions that I am certain others will find very helpful!!

I should have been more specific in my original post - my fault!! I had a 166.003 damaged case omega with a near perfect dial on a 562 movement and a 166.002 with stripped threads on a similar condition dial on 562 movement. The rcase repair costs are unfeasibliy prohibitive when compared to price of second hand usable cases.

Over the years, I have come across to dozens of reasonable stainless steel cases ( also gold capped too) on sale BUT were 165.002 and 165.003 instead of the date version 166.002 & 166.003. My curiosity was whether the movements with my already mounted date dials would fit into these non date version cases??

sheepdoll

·Jan 18, 2025

Well the movement will fit. It really comes down to the dial and crystal and bezel.

I have a 165.002 with a 550 no date movement in it. I impulsed a 166.0202 only to find it takes a 1010/1012 movement. So it really takes a lot of research to figure this out.

Ideally one would like to keep the cases and movements in line with the stuff documented on the Omega Vintage site. There is a lot of mismatched stuff on the bay.

I bought a bunch of random "unknown" plates. These are 551, 552(2) 563, 564 and a 565. I also teased out 601, 613, and 752. Keep getting 570 parts which are for a smaller caliber.

So there is no one size fits all. A lot of it is trial and error.

Have similar issues with the 1342 quartz movements. I got a movement with dial and a case and the dial is too large for the case.

Many cases were melted down, or the guilding wore off. I would be perfectly happy with the latter, But I sunk so much of my discretionary funds into 35 to 60 buck parts for the above movements, and a few of them are missing rotors. It seems to be feast or famine. Estate sellers will dump parts, but the regular strippers nickel and dime the parts since they know what they can get for something if they wait a year or more.

I'd love to find a source of decent second hand usable cases. Do not see to many listed here, and the bay makes searching for them awkward.

Archer

·Jan 19, 2025·Omega Qualified Watchmaker

No one can tell you for sure…but let us know after you have tried it…

Horologist

·Jan 19, 2025

sheepdoll
Well the movement will fit. It really comes down to the dial and crystal and bezel.

I believe that the dial diameter and convexity is the same for both 166.002 and 165.002. My suspicion is that the date wheel layer on the 562 will be pushing down the stem position in contrast to the non date 552, This is what I believe would be the real issue here where the stem will not be centred in the case opening not designed for a date version. Yes, ideally one wants to keep cases and movements in line with what is documented, but unfortunately one works with whatever leftover salvaged pieces are available if it can substitute the practicality for one's own use. I am no fan of frankenpieces as much as anyone!!!!

I am now tempted to buy a non working non date model of the date version should one come along for a feasible price and try it out as Archer has said just for the education part and curiosity. If this opportunity comes along, I will post the results for anyone caught up in my situation.

kaplan

·Jan 19, 2025

On older C-Case's the height difference is handled by the crystal between 564 and 751 movements
On newer models the mid-case is different, has a longer bottom for day-date models

So my suggestion is to check crystals / height, and if not, pay attention to the side profile, I suspect the case will be the same and the crystal is what handles the height difference

Horologist

·Jan 19, 2025

kaplan
On older C-Case's the height difference is handled by the crystal between 564 and 751 movements

Yes, that is correct!!!! The 564 is date only and the and the 751 has both day and date! I wonder if the stem height from the base of the rehaut is the same for both if the crystal handles the height difference! This was the very example that prompted me to think of the same analogy for a 552 and a 562 if the crystal were to play a role to offset this ! Dial diameter also plays an important role, especially if its diameter is wider than the diameter of the movement

For example in my 166.009, the dial diameter measures 27.39mm and so does a dial that came from from a battered 165.009 being the same diameter without the opening for date window! Pity I don’t have a 165.009 case to see if anything changes if I were to interchange their internals to find out
Yet the mounting diameter of the caliber 552 is 27.9mm ( being wider than the dial diameter) with a stem height to the top of movement of 1.65mm according to ranfft database. Therefore the dial would just line up with the tension ring, possibly having no effect by the crystal.. . Whereas the stem height is 2.15 mm in the date version being the 562. So by intuiitive deduction, the 552 would just be out of centre for the stem opening in the case tube on the 166.009 made for a 562. I would not be confident to gamble buying one and try it on this particular reference..However for wider diameter dials, the situation may be different??? maybe not!!. Thanks again fellows!!.

kaplan

·Jan 19, 2025

The upper height of the movement increases, it's like 550 > 560 > 750 - each complication adds just a little bit more height

I don't understand your way of thinking, but in most of these era movements, the dial presses onto the crystal ring, so the crystal is the most vital part - I think the main exception is cases with both front and back openings

Better to research the original crystal and their dimensions, with a carefully crafted question and being transparent about why you are asking the question, you can ask mikeswatchparts on eBay - he was extremely knowledgeable on exact crystal dimensions. By crystal, I mean the depth of the tension ring, that 0.5mm stem height difference, can just be handled with a tension ring / crystal that's 0.5mm deeper

Horologist

·Jan 19, 2025

kaplan
The upper height of the movement increases, it's like 550 > 560 > 750 - each complication adds just a little bit more height

I don't understand your way of thinking, but in most of these era movements, the dial presses onto the crystal ring, so the crystal is the most vital part - I think the main exception is cases with both front and back openings

Better to research the original crystal and their dimensions, with a carefully crafted question and being transparent about why you are asking the question, you can ask mikeswatchparts on eBay - he was extremely knowledgeable on exact crystal dimensions. By crystal, I mean the depth of the tension ring, that 0.5mm stem height difference, can just be handled with a tension ring / crystal that's 0.5mm deeper

Thank you so much!!! Very eloquent and especially very valid points!!! stem height difference vs tension ring depth!! 👍

kaplan
'''''''and being transparent about why you are asking the question,

I tho8ght I had made it very clear in the process of discussing this thread. Re-iterating, I have a movement with dial coming from a 166.003 reference. However the case is damaged beyond feasible repair. I have found many 165.003 ( same reference without the date window) cases which I held off from buying as I intended to put in this salvaged movement with near mint dial into the non date case for personal use. Hopefully I could even use the case back from my damaged case.

Maybe putting it simply I should have asked is if the middle part of the case are identical for both 166.003 and 165.003? .Perhaps this would have made it easier to comprehend. All I was wondering was if it will work??? Simple!!! No catches just a workable usable watch! Thank you for your efforts and attention. Much appreciated!!

sheepdoll

·Jan 19, 2025

Horologist
I am now tempted to buy a non working non date model of the date version should one come along for a feasible price and try it out as Archer has said just for the education part and curiosity. If this opportunity comes along, I will post the results for anyone caught up in my situation.

+1

Yes that is the best option. 552 movements will be easer to find than 562. Niether of these have quickset. The dials are not interchangable.

The other posters said the same thing I did. More to the point.

Since I have a 165.002 I stuck a 163 movement in and the stem aligns. The crystal and ring, will get in the way of the date ring.

The crystal charts searchable here do show the different crystal heights. The sweep, cannon pinion and hour wheel will also differ. I discovered this with a 552 into a dynamic case (which takes a 552.) The hands do not clear the furnature. Ebay sellers to not know the differences in the heights. Or will sell open packages with the wrong part. As noted, these things are subtle, and without a lot of handling actual parts can the differences be seen.

mikeswatchparts, is where I get a lot of my parts from. Downside is shipping can take a while to the US.

Horologist

·Jan 20, 2025

sheepdoll
+1

Yes that is the best option. 552 movements will be easer to find than 562. Niether of these have quickset. The dials are not interchangable.

The other posters said the same thing I did. More to the point.

Since I have a 165.002 I stuck a 163 movement in and the stem aligns. The crystal and ring, will get in the way of the date ring.

The crystal charts searchable here do show the different crystal heights. The sweep, cannon pinion and hour wheel will also differ. I discovered this with a 552 into a dynamic case (which takes a 552.) The hands do not clear the furnature. Ebay sellers to not know the differences in the heights. Or will sell open packages with the wrong part. As noted, these things are subtle, and without a lot of handling actual parts can the differences be seen.

mikeswatchparts, is where I get a lot of my parts from. Downside is shipping can take a while to the US.

👍 thanks!!!

sheepdoll
Yes that is the best option. 552 movements will be easer to find than 562.

you mean the case!! I already have the 562 novements with impeccable dials but no cases for them. I can only find cases for the 552

sheepdoll

·Jan 20, 2025

552 no date version 24 jewel version of 550. 562 has date. So the dials are completely different.

I think the difference is you have a surfeit of 562 movements and I of 552. Not sure I have any 562 calendar movements.

Omega's numbering system is not all that consistent. 562 and 563 are really different. They share some parts, but not the base plate, jewels or setting mechanisms.

Find the case and dial, then find the movement. The other way is much harder.

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