Who wants to predict the future for Vintage watches?

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Good time to hear some thoughts on the future of vintage watch values and desirability of all brands. Are we at a high water mark for "true" vintage, that is arbitarly prior to c.1975? Perhaps the not so rare vintage and those not the best examples are falling? Will prices ever rebound? Perhaps vintage will die a long, slow death as collectors age out of the market and others move on to other hobbies. I am sure there is a cycle to all markets, vintage watches and otherwise - where is the vintage watch market now? Thoughts and predictions??
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Great topic.

I was feeling pessimistic about the future of vintage watches until I attended a wedding last weekend. Two guys in their 40’s, one in their 30’s were wearing vintage watches: a GMT Master, a Seamaster, and a rose gold Patek.

My take? There’s just so much “joy” technology can bring. Everyone has the same phone and computer, people have an urge to distinguish themselves from one another.

The thrill of a new Submariner goes just so far for every young guy who’s got some few extra coin if everyone in your friend group has the same thing. So there’s a vast area to mine with vintage. But let’s not talk about getting them serviced…
 
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Current becomes vintage.
Vintage becomes antique.
Antiques are like poetry.
People fucking hate poetry.
 
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I gave this Bulova to the son of our closest friends a few years ago.

He is now in his early 20s and it’s his pride and joy. IMG_3061.jpeg He works in the music industry and although sworn to secrecy about the musicians that he works with, his watch is a big hit. (Nice pun).

His watch gets so much attention that he is now seeking a cheap mechanical Timex to wear at work.

My contribution to the future. If you have a similar grade watch to give to a niece or nephew, it will spread the enthusiasm.
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That's what we do here at "The Home For Wayward Watches;" give a future back to vintages watches ...

...for as long as I'm alive and kicking.
 
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I think that the modest softening of prices made the last year a good time to buy. But don't wait too long, the tide has turned again.
 
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Funny how most of the young ones pumping PP and Rolex on their YouTube channels are wearing vintage watches.

The price of luxury watches nowadays is going to push more into vintage :whistling:


The excellent examples will always hold better value to all, be it collectors or Instagramers (show and go guys I call them as they sell them as quick as they have bought them)
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Real Vintage will always go up. Desired Brands will change. Excellent Condition will be more expensive , the older they get. Service costs will go up. But there are new, younger Watchmakers ready to make their mark. Style will always prevail ; Men have not too many accessories to express their Style. They find Interest Groups to talk about it. And find, that they share other interests with Watchcollectors as well . The more uniformity/ conformity rules our life, the more the wearer of a vintage watch will be noticed/ subject to interested questions, why he / she still wears something from the past/ outdated... Weddings. Parties. Family gatherings. In the last years here alone the steady stream of questions about inherited watches and what to do with them shows the way it might go.Things come back, because people tend to glorify the Good Old Days and forget the daily grind there ..... Old Play station, Vinyl's, cassettes, Barbies even as Movies and many other samples. Our vintage watch future is bright. Just remember: Vintage watches are not an monetary investment. If you keep them and love them 30 plus years, maybe then. But the joy you get from them outweighs everything else. So, yes, a bright future. (That might exclude many overvalued Bling/Bling Rolexes and other fly by brands. )
 
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There is a very similar thread on MWR where opinions are quite mixed.
 
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I an continually surprised by the future. It's not always pleasant, but it's never boring.

Knowing that, my perception is that once something takes on a high monetary value, it establishes a market, which takes on a life of its own. Good condition, horologically significant pieces should continue their appeal. Watches aren't land, but neither are they beany babies.

Tastes change. Bell and Ross didn't seem to take off and Panerai has faded. They'll be some surprising new brands that remind people of their youth (will Nomos be a hot new vintage brand?)

Watches are like everything else, tied up in economic and civil stability. China was a big market and they are having a tough time, high unemployment and rising debt. Debt amongst the middle and upper class has risen in the states. There's low unemployment in the the states but also higher living costs with an aging population. Fetanyl and meth are scourges that have so far eluded any solution. Weather related disasters are creating high costs and instabilty, which will likely increase as the climate changes. Nationalism is on the rise throughout the world, which is often the tinder needed for wars. I am reminded that my grandfather lived through the time only about 100 years ago when wheelbarrows were needed to haul the cash needed to buy bread. His family didn't anticipate that. But it also didn't last and things changed.

When people ask what will happen in the future, they usually mean what will happen to me in five years. People don't generally care about 150 years in the future. If the future is in 5 years or a decade, good vintage watches seem like they will still be appealing and have a market. I don't think they'll go the way of the pocket watch. One of the great strengths of wrist watches over apple watches is that mechanical wrist watches don't have a system based on software going obsolete in 2 years.

If vintage watches have no value in 25 years, it'll be because we have bigger problems. Who knows what will happen in 100 years? Will people still value diamonds in 100 years? Personally, i don't think diamonds will be as appealing in a century. How about classic cars? Baby boomers 60's cars won't last, but people will still collect and love vintage cars. I think vintage watches as a group will still be appealing but the specific items that have the greatest interest and appeal may be quite different.

The good thing about my predictions of the future is that so far the future hasn't paid me any attention.
 
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Current becomes vintage.
Vintage becomes antique.
Antiques are like poetry.
People fucking hate poetry.

I kinda agree with this.

By that I mean the vintage watches which will still be collectible to a wide audience are the ones that closely resemble todays modern versions. E.g. Speedmaster, Sub/GMT etc. They’ll go up in value as I imagine a 60’s Speedy which closely resembles a Speedy in 2023 will also closely resemble one in 2050.
The ones which will see a drop are those 50’s/60’s models that don’t have a similar counterpart in 2023 and they’ll go the way of the pocket watch, albeit perhaps not quite to that extreme.

I also think ultimately, taste will return to 36-39mm and up to 42mm for some sports models. This is clearly already happening, and imo it’s the people behind the curve who are still strapping hockey pucks to their wrist.
 
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Thoughts and predictions??

My prediction is that current vintage watches will continue to get older. :whistling:
 
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I think interest in Speedmasters and sports model Rolex will remain with obvious fluctuations in demand based in economic cycles.

I could care less about discussion surrounding China. The fact is that the hobby experienced unprecedented and unsustainable ascend worldwide over the past 6-7 years. What we are experiencing now is a slight dose, but necessary, correction which gives true enthusiasts an opportunity to buy back into at ‘reasonable’ prices specially with Speedies.

I saw a listing this past week for a 2023 Silver Snoopy for $17K. I don’t think I have seen one listed that low since the watch was introduced. Initially, it peaked at $29K and since has seen a steady swan dive in valuation. I think this a good thing as it brings more people into the hobby.

Valuations will continue to adjust downward in the short term. The question is, are you a buyer or a seller? For me, I’m a selective buyer at the moment, only evaluating top condition watches.
 
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There will be several factors at play: the macroeconomic cycles and the ebb or flow of the watch hobby. But for vintage specifically, I think it will depend on whether collectors opt for old vs. new. I'm a part of a large watch group at my workplace; more than a thousand folks, generally younger and well-paid. In aggregate they seem to have more interest in modern than vintage; when going up in price (say from a modern Rolex sport watch), they are more likely to move to an A Lange & Sohne than to a vintage Rolex; if expanding their collections, they tend to acquire a breadth of microbrands than a number of Polerouters/Enicar/etc.

One thing for sure: only time will tell
 
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Current becomes vintage.
Vintage becomes antique.
Antiques are like poetry.
People fucking hate poetry.
At least part of this is true (lol), which is that "current becomes vintage." Thus, vintage will always be popular, because part of that is human nature, and the goal posts shift for what counts as vintage...
 
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This thread took an strange turn. I guess no one wants to be a Cassandra.

I have been collecting for 30 years. The first 10 or so were intense, I then found another interest and put the watches on hold for 18 or so years. Not completely. The passion was still there just not the motivation.

The last year the passion returned. There had been some other attempts at revival which fizzled.

I noticed that I returned to many of my old bad habits. In a lot of ways the low end has not changed much in 30 years. Adjusted for inflation I might even be paying less now than I was 25 or so years ago when I was at peak. Main difference was pre swatch, Omega trended to the lower end of the scale. The dealers would cherry pick them out of the estate boxes and sell them individually.

Then as now the estate boxes contained a mix of pin levers and everyday tool watches. The latter is what I got re-interested in. Specifically the A. Schild movements. Problem with those is that there are 100s if not thousands of house names used with these trademarks comiditized to bulk values. A good example of this is from the film Back to the future. The 1980s seikos are collectable. The 1940s/1950s watches remain cheaper by the dozen. Most films tend to use charity shop props, so I do not see this changing. Still product placement may have an effect.

My passion was chronographs. I was focusing at the end on these and automatics. The prediction then was 'common' watches would not hold value.

Some of the chronos did well. I grabbed what I could without a lot of research at the time. That probably has been the biggest change. 30 years ago I collected as many books and ephemera as I did watches. Now much of that is a few clicks away. This though is an area what may change. Controlling information has become power. That is really the scariest bit. In many ways this is not new. There have been times like the council of Nicaea, or the burning of the library of Alexandra, which changed the course of history.

Look up the history of Sappho. Ironically her writings might be some of the best preserved. Even if they were used tp paper Egyptian bathrooms and her rhetoric laughed at by boys studying Greek.

I predict information will continue to be hidden. A year ago one could download the bestfit catalog. Now a company clawed back the copyright and wants to charge for it. Films I like to watch are not on streaming. Some films and TV episodes are considered so disruptive no one should see them. New versions replace the old. and the younger people pretend the old versions did not exist, or were really bad and not worth the time spent looking at them. Or are considered rude and insulting to a race or creed. When a new Pharoh came along they chiseled the name of the old one off the monuments. In the case of Ceaser, they burred his palace and built a sports arena on it. Which I Ironically has become the very symbol of the excesivness and indolences of his predecessors. These guys get their actions so mixed up it is hard to tell one from another.

Quartz watches were considered disposable. That it was too soon to know how long the electronics would last. I avoided quartz like the plague. Curiously I got some interesting quartz in an estate lot. Another somewhat experimental one with a micro generator did not hold value as the supercap battery takes effort to find and replace. Batteries leak etc. So I do not think quartz will do much different in the future.

The good Quartz watches like Omega and Tag/Heuer seem to retain some value. If one considers 100 bucks value. I like to tend around 35 bucks. Never liked paying more than 200. Now days such are still sold by the pound.

What got me back on the horse was seeing how much a year ago being traded in the 400 to 1200 range. This is now considered low end. Yet when I sat down to see what I might sell, I found not much had really changed.

I also notice not much in the way of women's watches in the predictions. This is over half the population. When I joined a year ago it was implied that 10% here are women. Although I think the number of us who are active can be counted on the fingers.

I have been saying for decades, that I have enough projects for 500 years. (possibly 2000.) I think in the last year I got enough watches for the next 30. Although there is always one more part to get -- or skill to learn.

Parts availability will be the gaming factor. 30 years ago I thought I could program machines to make parts. This is still an ongoing project. The controlling of parts will cause a lot of disruption. A lot of this is done in the name of health, safety and the environment.

Most likely the material houses like OFrie, Borrel, and Esslinger etc. The real estate these warehouses are in are in seedy neighborhoods and the land wanted for more pack and stack housing. The manufactures will tighten grips on distribution leading to more polarization.

I grabbed what spare parts I could when I could. Never the part I need. I spend as much on parts as I do watches. I do not see this changing.

I tend to think of the past as infinitly slow and the future infinitly fast. Why it is so hard to address these topics.

Still the more one looks at the past the more one sees the future.

... and so endith the message today. Go forth now and spread the joy of watch collecting to others.
Edited:
 
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I think vintage watches will be fine for the foreseeable future. If there was already a market for these pieces pre www I think that the increased availability of information will keep adding new collectors to the fold. For me and many here it’s a great hobby that continues to evolve. Even the most experienced collectors continue to learn new things all the time. And as I’ve said many times the variety in vintage omegas is staggering- unmatched by any other brand. That continues to this day and while it is criticized as making the modern omega line confusing and difficult to follow it makes the vintage omega world way more interesting.
 
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This thread took a strange turn. I guess no one wants to be a Cassandra.

I have been collecting for 30 years. The first 10 or so were intense, I then found another interest and put the watches on hold for 18 or so years. Not completely. The passion was still there just not the motivation.

The last year the passion returned. There had been some other attempts at revival which fizzled.

I noticed that I returned to many of my old bad habits. In a lot of ways the low end has not changed much in 30 years. Adjusted for inflation I might even be paying less now than I was 25 or so years ago when I was at peak. Main difference was pre swatch, Omega trended to the lower end of the scale. The dealers would cherry pick them out of the estate boxes and sell them individually.

Then as now the estate boxes contained a mix of pin levers and everyday tool watches. The latter is what I got re-interested in. Specifically the A. Schild movements. Problem with those is that there are 100s if not thousands of house names used with these trademarks comiditized to bulk values. A good example of this is from the film Back to the future. The 1980s seikos are collectable. The 1940s/1950s watches remain cheaper by the dozen. Most films tend to use charity shop props, so I do not see this changing. Still product placement may have an effect.

My passion was chronographs. I was focusing at the end on these and automatics. The prediction then was 'common' watches would not hold value.

Some of the chronos did well. I grabbed what I could without a lot of research at the time. That probably has been the biggest change. 30 years ago I collected as many books and ephemera as I did watches. Now much of that is a few clicks away. This though is an area what may change. Controlling information has become power. That is really the scariest bit. In many ways this is not new. There have been times like the council of Nicaea, or the burning of the library of Alexandra, which changed the course of history.

Look up the history of Sappho. Ironically her writings might be some of the best preserved. Even if they were used tp paper Egyptian bathrooms and her rhetoric laughed at by boys studying Greek.

I predict information will continue to be hidden. A year ago one could download the bestfit catalog. Now a company clawed back the copyright and wants to charge for it. Films I like to watch are not on streaming. Some films and TV episodes are considered so disruptive no one should see them. New versions replace the old. and the younger people pretend the old versions did not exist, or were really bad and not worth the time spent looking at them. Or are considered rude and insulting to a race or creed. When a new Pharoh came along they chiseled the name of the old one off the monuments. In the case of Ceaser, they burred his palace and built a sports arena on it. Which I Ironically has become the very symbol of the excesivness and indolences of his predecessors. These guys get their actions so mixed up it is hard to tell one from another.

Quartz watches were considered disposable. That it was too soon to know how long the electronics would last. I avoided quartz like the plague. Curiously I got some interesting quartz in an estate lot. Another somewhat experimental one with a micro generator did not hold value as the supercap battery takes effort to find and replace. Batteries leak etc. So I do not think quartz will do much different in the future.

The good Quartz watches like Omega and Tag/Heuer seem to retain some value. If one considers 100 bucks value. I like to tend around 35 bucks. Never liked paying more than 200. Now days such are still sold by the pound.

What got me back on the horse was seeing how much a year ago being traded in the 400 to 1200 range. This is now considered low end. Yet when I sat down to see what I might sell, I found not much had really changed.

I also notice not much in the way of women's watches in the predictions. This is over half the population. When I joined a year ago it was implied that 10% here are women. Although I think the number of us who are active can be counted on the fingers.

I have been saying for decades, that I have enough projects for 500 years. (possibly 2000.) I think in the last year I got enough watches for the next 30. Although there is always one more part to get -- or skill to learn.

Parts availability will be the gaming factor. 30 years ago I thought I could program machines to make parts. This is still an ongoing project. The controlling of parts will cause a lot of disruption. A lot of this is done in the name of health, safety and the environment.

Most likely the material houses like OFrie, Borrel, and Esslinger etc. The real estate these warehouses are in are in seedy neighborhoods and the land wanted for more pack and stack housing. The manufactures will tighten grips on distribution leading to more polarization.

I grabbed what spare parts I could when I could. Never the part I need. I spend as much on parts as I do watches. I do not see this changing.

I tend to think of the past as infinitly slow and the future infinitly fast. Why it is so hard to address these topics.

Still the more one looks at the past the more one sees the future.

... and so endith the message today. Go forth now and spread the joy of watch collecting to others.

It was a long post, but I appreciate how much thought you put into what you share here. I’m sure I’m not the only one.
 
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