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When a watch has patina and when it´s destroyed?

  1. elara2105 Sep 29, 2020

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    Hello to all the members of the forum, some time ago I wanted to start this thread. It is important that you know that I am not an expert in watches, far from it, I am just a watch lover and especially of the Omega brand, since they were the watches that my father used.

    This thread is created to find out the different opinions regarding whether a watch has patina or whether the watch should be restored. I have been part of this forum just three years ago, and I have seen posts about incredible watches, brands that I did not even know, real jewels and works of art of watchmaking.

    However, many of these watches in my humble opinion are badly damaged, be it the dial, the bezel, the case or the bracelet, and they are watches that were designed to be worn on their owner's wrist, to make them smile every time. In most cases, the dial is the one that is most damaged, the color, number, design, etc. are no longer visible.

    I hope you do not misunderstand me, surely there are people who make them smile to wear the watch that their grandfather or father used in the 40s, 50s or 60s, and that has some war scars, and that makes it different from the others, I do!, but that's just what I would like to know, your opinions, about where is the fine line between patina and a watch damaged by the passage of time.

    I appreciate your attention to this thread, and I leave some photos of my watches, which have been overhauled in some way or another, for example: the moonwatch is from 1976, but because my dad kept it for a long time in an inappropriate place , the dial had to be changed, because it was damaged by moisture, the Mark 4.5 (1974) received a full service at Omega in Switzerland and I think it looks spectacular, the MarkII (1972) also received a full service in Omega and the Speedsonic (1975) a full service was performed and the case was refinished.

    Have a nice week, and keep posting!

    mk45.jpg mkII.jpg moon.jpg sonic.jpg
     
  2. gpssti4 Sep 29, 2020

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    Firstly, very nice collection; wear in good health.
    To try and give my opinion, not really an answer as it is sooooo many shades of grey. I think that patina as a watch ages is fine - if it’s just natural ageing. If it’s suffered water damage I’d be looking to change the dial (for example), unless changing it would devalue the watch. However, if the watch was a keeper and I wanted it changed then I would, regardless of the decrease in value. After all, your watch should please you and be of little relevance to others.
     
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  3. elara2105 Sep 29, 2020

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    Thank you for taking the time to enter this thread.
     
  4. Nobel Prize Spell Master! Sep 29, 2020

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    A significant marker is when the "patina" affects the movement. :)
     
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  5. janice&fred Sep 29, 2020

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    The only thing I can really offer for an opinion is "it depends". However I will point out the watches you posted have zero patina.
     
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  6. elara2105 Sep 29, 2020

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    Correct!...
     
  7. schoolboy Sep 29, 2020

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    What about the aged lume in the last photo? You don't consider that patina?
     
  8. Marsimaxam Sep 29, 2020

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    Read this article elara2105... it will give you a lot of insight into your question as have the comments above.

    The Difference Between Patina and Damage


    The rising prices of certain rare timepieces have brought a lot of attention to the vintage watch market. With all the attention has come an increased focus on the minutia that surrounds these rare and valuable watches; and as always, there is an ample amount of confusion and general misunderstanding regarding certain terms and details that can separate two similar looking watches by tens (or even hundreds) of thousands of dollars in resale price.
    Terms such as “tropical” and “patina” frequently get misused to describe watches that are (for lack of a better word) simply damaged. While two watches with discolored dials or darkened lume can appear somewhat similar at first glance, there is a significant difference between something having an appearance that has naturally changed over time, and something that has had its appearance changed due to a specific incident of damage or contact with a foreign substance.

    [​IMG]

    The color of watch dials can change over the course of many years due to unavoidable environmental factors such as oxidation and sunlight exposure. In other instances, the color of a dial may change due to the inherent properties (or tiny imperfections) of the materials that make up the dial itself and its numerous different layers of surface finish. When watch dials change color naturally and symmetrically, it is often said that they have developed a patina, and are frequently referred to as “tropical dials” within the vintage collecting circles.

    With that in mind, contact with water, oils, extreme heat, and various liquid chemicals can also alter the appearance of a watch dial. However, a color change – even a very aesthetically pleasing one – that occurs due to an isolated incident is not the same thing as a patina that slowly develops due to the unavoidable passage of time. Many watches with spotted, stained, or otherwise damaged dials frequently get incorrectly labeled as having a patina or being tropical; however in reality, they are simply damaged (or “distressed” if you prefer), and would not look the same as they do now, had something not happened to them at a previous point in time.


    A similar distinction exists concerning the luminescent material found on the dials and hands of vintage watches. Older timepieces relied on radioactive tritium to provide them with their glow, and over the course of many years, the presence of the radioactive substance slowly darkens the color of the tritium paint and causes it to symmetrically change color and take on a tone that can range from light cream to burnt orange. While it is not an entirely uncommon occurrence for the tritium on the hands of a watch to darken at a slightly different rate than the tritium used on the dial of the same timepiece, tritium patina occurs symmetrically; it does not “fill-in” in blotches or only appear on some of the hour markers of a single dial.



    • [​IMG]
    • [​IMG]
    Many people say that the difference between “patina” and “damage” lies in the eyes of the beholder; however this statement is almost entirely not true. To a certain extent, almost anything that alters the appearance of a watch can technically be considered damage; however a distinction must exist between something changing color due to the inherent properties of its manufacturing materials, versus changing color due to being stained by rust. Although certain watches with very aesthetically pleasing, “distressed” dials can sometimes walk the line between damage and patina, the truth of the matter is that unless the change in appearance occurred organically, than it is simply a very fortunate instance of dial damage.

    [​IMG]

    Source: https://blog.craftandtailored.com/the-difference-between-patina-and-damage/
     
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  9. elara2105 Sep 29, 2020

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    Thank you! Excellent article.
     
  10. PlainVanilla Sep 29, 2020

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    Here is an example of a damaged dial:

    [​IMG]

    It's true damage, caused by water and uneven, concentrated at the top of the dial.

    In most light conditions, it's just this dark spot at one o'clock but when the light hits certain angles you can see the damage extends from 9 to 1:

    [​IMG]

    To me, it's still a pretty stunning watch.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. janice&fred Sep 29, 2020

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    Take a wild guess. Don't let my previous post throw you off. :D
     
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  12. schoolboy Sep 29, 2020

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    Hahahaha ok. :D
     
  13. Rumar89 Sep 29, 2020

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    I don’t have a clue what caused this. I do, however, know I like it.

    283D2E08-ACC2-4465-939B-06956EF2909F.jpeg
    5A932D89-4E03-4529-B9D6-2B2157159E9B.jpeg
     
  14. Nobel Prize Spell Master! Sep 30, 2020

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    As well you should!! It’s an interesting dial. What caused it? Humidity? Materials that rust naturally ( like copper or bronze alloys) ? I lack the knowledge to know but, as the article says, it is “fortunate damage “

    the reason I call it that is because not all models of the same year will have such an extreme case of degradation so I’d venture this is something specific to this watch.
     
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  15. Larry S Color Commentator for the Hyperbole. Sep 30, 2020

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    Patina .. Wabi Sabe...nice even aging that adds interest, almost glows. Too much or outright corrosion is jarring to be frank in a dressy watch. Few of mine.
    C559C51B-5F18-418D-83BB-5DABF10AE10B.jpeg
    432F604A-735B-4DFF-BF6F-2A7D8BB7324F.jpeg 4F24103D-72B0-4617-9862-ABCD45C5F9F7.jpeg 56AD9F7F-6F74-49A4-8DA2-EC0E5A8916C5.jpeg F53B8B62-0681-4CD2-A261-45603BE6F629.jpeg
     
    Edited Sep 30, 2020
  16. Emeister Donut-eatin desk-divin wannabe-astronaut fat dude Sep 30, 2020

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  17. NT931 Sep 30, 2020

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    Tropical? Patina? Damage?

    Who cares. I like it. :D

    upload_2020-9-30_22-26-54.png
     
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  18. palatine Sep 30, 2020

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  19. rootbeer7 Oct 1, 2020

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    This started out as deep blue. It’s now silver and near impossible to photograph well. I think it’s pretty cool without actually being destroyed.
     
    F1DE572E-C0A5-40F9-A7E6-F874D51AFF2A.jpeg
  20. Jayco Oct 4, 2020

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    That BOR band is worth almost that much these days.
     
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