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"What's in a name?" - Rolex group private label watches.

  1. lightweight May 14, 2022

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    Hello everyone, I recently came across a wonderful find of a very special watch. It represents a cool time in Rolex history and I thought it would be fun to chat with you all about it. The watch you see below was likely purchased in the 50's from Canadian retailer Eaton's. In the mid-century department stores loomed large in the consumer consciousness. Department stores existed to fulfill consumers' every purchase need from the practical (clothing, furniture), to the bizarre (Sears sold DIY homebuilding kits up until the 1940's), and ultimately for us the luxurious.
    Though these retailers provided North Americans with so many of their household goods often under their own brand names it would be unwieldily for a company to produce, ship, and them. So these stores often created relationships with existing manufacturers to buy, rebrand, and sell their existing goods under the department store's own name. Similar excitement exists today as shoppers flock to Costco, in order to purchase things like Kirkland Signature Golf Balls which are produced by Taylor Made. Such products are often called Private Label products.

    Earlier in Rolex's history, there was a time when the brand did not enjoy such a feverish appreciation as it does today. Owing to many factors quality, advertising, and cultural significance naming just a few it would never make sense for Rolex in today's market to sell watches to a retailer to be rebranded or a retailer to rebrand Rolex watch to an internal private label. The situation for Rolex was different in the 50's when many other brands that have now been eclipsed by Rolex (including a few that have since disappeared completely) were seen as more prestigious or desirable. As foreign as the idea might seem to someone living in 2022 there was such a time when even some 50 years after its founding Rolex was not a household name, and certainly was not synonymous with fine watchmaking in the eyes of the public. In America Rolex only began to surge in popularity after the second world war possibly receiving such a boost only due to President Eisenhower being photographed wearing a Datejust for the April 1950 issue of Time Magazine. In Canada the Rolex brand was initially completely absent, watches retailed by Hans Wilsdorf were marketed under the brand name Oyster Watch Co. featuring some playful names.

    In addition to doing the business themselves, Rolex had two contracts in Canada one with the famous Canadian Jeweller Birks and a second contract with Eaton's. Birks sold cased watches with Rolex movements and Birks on the dial, whereas Eaton's had the watches produced for their in-house "Solar" brand. Not all "Solar" brand watches had Rolex movements so far all of the watches that have Rolex movements to my knowledge are from the the "Aqua", "Aqua Prima", or "King of Wings" lines of watches.

    The watch I have to show you all today is from the Solar Aqua line. It has an oyster-style screw-down crown featuring the words "Oyster Patented" and an automatic "rotor self-winding" system. The indices appear to be applied yellow gold. Radium is applied to the dauphin shaped hands and has remained quite well preserved while aging to a very attractive (subjectively) light orange. Small dots of radium in the same hue can be seen near the minute track at the 12, 2, and 3 markers leading me to believe that all the indices were once similarly marked. The watch is quite dense though it is likely gold-capped as opposed to solid gold. Scouring the internet I have not come across a watch in this exact configuration so I have had trouble dating it exactly. I suspect it has a Tudor Cal. 390 hence the "What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet" reference. This guy probably hasn't been serviced in 40 or more years and is ticking over no problem.

    To those of you who have more information on this watch in particular or who want to discuss Rolex private label watches in general I would love to have a discussion in the comments. Of particular interest to me would be if anyone could help me date the watch a bit what I believe to be the serial number is visible on the back. If anyone has any idea what the exact movement is on the inside that would be awesome information. If anyone knows of a trusted watchmaker in Canada with experience dealing with watches of this vintage I would love a recommendation. The fella is clearly in need of a trip to the spa and I would have to have any of the vintage charm damaged by a lack of care.
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  2. JwRosenthal May 14, 2022

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  3. Dan S May 14, 2022

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    These are pretty well-documented, but always interesting to see. They greatly resemble Tudor watches from the era (even to the asymmetrical drilled lug holes), so indeed I'd expect to see a Tudor movement inside, although that's really just a guess. The case and case-back might even be Tudor. If the watch is in your possession, why not post photos of the inside? That would be preferable to guessing. I think your watch is probably from the 40s or early 50s, but I don't really know how to get an accurate date. As an FYI, you might also want to crop your photos before posting; the current images are 90% background. :thumbsup:
     
    Edited May 14, 2022
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  4. lightweight May 14, 2022

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    I would like to open the watch but I don't have the proper tools. In the past, I have used the rubber on my climbing shoes but this watch has a sentimental attachment/family significance. I would feel really bad if I damaged the watch in any way by using too much force. Thanks for the tip on the crop. I'll take care of that next post.

    The 7809 number on the case back is the reference number of the Tudor Oyster Prince watches used on the famous Greenland expedition. It is remarked that some of these watches had a similar dial configuration with the arabic numerals at 12, 3, 6, and 9 but the case appears different and I did not see any of those cased in gold.
     
  5. TheGreekPhysique May 14, 2022

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    I cant help ya but just wanted to say I thought it was a very interesting read! Thanks for the post.
     
  6. watchyouwant ΩF Clairvoyant May 14, 2022

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    It is a Tudor. Your crown seems to be a replacement. The dial indices are not solid gold , just polished brass. Nothing special. I had a few over the last 30 plus years.
     
    Edited May 14, 2022
  7. lightweight May 14, 2022

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    Very cool that you have had so many! Are you in the Canadian market or have these watches migrated around the globe over the years? I would not be surprised that the crown had been changed. I am curious as to what you tipped you off though? Different shape? Different words? If I wanted to source something that was closer to the original what would I be looking for? Thanks for your advice and the benefit of your experience.
     
  8. Canuck May 14, 2022

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    Dredging my memory, as I recall, the only T Eaton company watches that were actually marked SOLAR AQUA, were basically a re-badged Tudor watch. The T Eaton company had a premium catalog for staff who had reached 25 years with the firm. Among the choices for men was the “Quarter Century” watch which had the Eaton name on the dial, and the numerals replaced with 1/4 Century Club. Those I have seen actually used Rolex movements, and Rolex quality or Rolex Oyster cases. SOLAR was the name used by Easton’s on wide ranging styles and qualities of watches for men and women. SOLAR AQUA dialled watches were ONLY supplied by Rolex, and movements and cases have been Tudor quality, not Rolex. Yellow colour SOLAR AQUA cases were generally steel, or gold plated. The yellow SOLAR AQUA cases had the Rolex back and screw down crown, but ROLEX cases were of better quality.

    At one time, Easton’s actually carried ROLEX watches as well. So did Hudson’s Bay.

    ROLEX used movements by Felsa in some of their Tudor self-wind watches during the 1950s. This was the era when Rolex used (for example) a late version of the bubble back. Calibre 775. I suspect the subject Solar Aqua watches (like Tudor of the era) used ETA automatic movements

    I don’t profess to be an expert in this area. I base what I say on what I have seen.
     
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  9. watchyouwant ΩF Clairvoyant May 14, 2022

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    My guess is a FEF base caliber with Tudor added automatic winding gear. Caliber 390.
     
    Edited May 14, 2022
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  10. Canuck May 14, 2022

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    The Perpetual Rolex movements in any of the “bubble-back”era Perpetuals (AFAIK), used a base movement produced by Aegler. This base Aegler movement was used in Rolex manual winders for decades. In Oyster and Tudor manual winders, Rolex used FHF calibre 30 movements (aka Rolex 59). These were never converted to Perpetuals.
     
  11. watchyouwant ΩF Clairvoyant May 14, 2022

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    The tudor 390 is a 12.5 ligne FEF (Fleurier Ebauche Factory) 380/390 base movement and is known to be an Ok base movement but with a troublesome autowind assembly added by Tudor. For this reason, autowind parts are very hard to find ; so if you buy a movement needing parts, it can be an expensive project.
     
  12. lightweight May 14, 2022

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    So from the information that you have gathered, it is likely the case that these watches would have been purchased by Eaton's from Rolex. Rolex would have provided Eaton's with a watch similar in quality to its own Tudor line which it could then sell under the Solar Aqua name?

    You say this is likely using an ETA movement any idea what kind of movement and how hard it will be to find replacement parts? My first priority is to get this watch back into great mechanical shape so I can wear it as part of my regular rotation. (If you know a guy you trust to work on something like this I am happy to hear suggestions.

    You seem pretty expert to me. No one seems to have done a TON of research into these watches. Most of the information I have found comes from guys like you who have just happened to own them over the years.
     
  13. lightweight May 14, 2022

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    The watch seems to be in suspiciously healthy condition. It's sat for a minimum of 15 years and I don't know when my grandfather had it serviced before that. I picked it up and it started ticking so I gave it a bit of wind and wore it. Popped it down on my nightstand and it was still ticking 24 hours later.
     
  14. Canuck May 14, 2022

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    Re: question # 1. Eatons Solar Aqua watches were basically Tudors with the dial replaced.

    Re: question # 2. I am assuming these watches have Eta movements. If I am correct, parts for the movement should be easy to get. The Eta movements used in Tudors were used in countless other makes as well.

    As to finding someone trustworthy to do the required repairs, give us where you live.
     
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  15. nicks May 14, 2022

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    The 1/4 Century Club watches were presented to employees from the 1920s to at least 1971, and over the years included pocket watches and “Prince” style cases. There was also a woman’s version. Eaton’s bought in batches from Rolex and had the engraving done locally.

    I have seen a couple of the mens wristwatches with “Rolex” on the dial instead of Eatons” — those are repainted, so beware.

    I’m keen on Canadian market Rolexes and Tudors. See my avatar. :thumbsup:

    OP, there’s a short write up on these in a recent issue of the newsletter of the NAWCC Ottawa Chapter 111. It’s online on the chapter site.
     
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  16. Canuck May 14, 2022

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    I believe the two subject watches are from a later era than the Tudors you refer to. And I agree with you about these Tudor movements creating many headaches as they wore out.
     
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  17. lightweight May 14, 2022

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    I live in Calgary currently. There are no watchmakers in the city as far as I know. Happy to go anywhere in Canada if there is someone who would be good. If not I would be willing to ship globally, just a pain with duties.
     
  18. Dan S May 14, 2022

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  19. lightweight May 14, 2022

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    [QUOTE="nicks, post: 1988676, member: 42668"
    I’m keen on Canadian market Rolexes and Tudors. See my avatar. :thumbsup:

    OP, there’s a short write up on these in a recent issue of the newsletter of the NAWCC Ottawa Chapter 111. It’s online on the chapter site.[/QUOTE]
    Oh that is awesome I will for sure check it out. Thanks for the info!

    I don't have an interest in expanding my collection any further, this one has some sentimental value while also being a cool/interesting watch. That being said I think there is a lot to dig into here. My wife has a lot of jewellery from Birks so one of the manual winding watches with the Rolex movement could be sweet if the condition was right. There is also another private label watch from an American retailer called Zell that goes by the name "Turtle Timer" and I think that is sweet too.
     
  20. JimInOz Melbourne Australia May 14, 2022

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    And a difficult project unless you can find a watchmaker willing to work on the Tudor 390.
    I only know of one idiot who volunteered to service one.
    Never again.
     
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