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What's a "true" 105.003 "Ed White"... the '63, or '64? (edit: could it have been a 105.002-62?!)

lexieb007
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The actual watch is still supposed to exist right?

And the space walk was in mid 1965...

So Did Ed White wear a '63 or '64 on that space walk?

Any idea of the serial number?

Thanks
 
Ree
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https://www.fratellowatches.com/why-ed-white-wore-two-speedmaster-105-003-watches/
"Omega confirmed that both watches on the wrist of astronaut Ed White during the Gemini IV mission are Speedmaster 105.003-63 references. One of them was Ed White’s training watch, and, according to NASA’s former engineer James H. Ragan, “It was one of the first Speedmasters to be delivered after the tests performed by NASA”. The training watch was later sold by Ed White’s son to a collector in Japan. What we know, is that the other 105.003-63 watch was destroyed in the fire of Apollo 1. This watch had NASA’s internal serial number S/N 5 and reference code CF5503 engraved on the left side of the case. On the case back, it was engraved with SEB1210039-001."
 
lexieb007
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Ree Ree
https://www.fratellowatches.com/why-ed-white-wore-two-speedmaster-105-003-watches/
"Omega confirmed that both watches on the wrist of astronaut Ed White during the Gemini IV mission are Speedmaster 105.003-63 references. One of them was Ed White’s training watch, and, according to NASA’s former engineer James H. Ragan, “It was one of the first Speedmasters to be delivered after the tests performed by NASA”. The training watch was later sold by Ed White’s son to a collector in Japan. What we know, is that the other 105.003-63 watch was destroyed in the fire of Apollo 1. This watch had NASA’s internal serial number S/N 5 and reference code CF5503 engraved on the left side of the case. On the case back, it was engraved with SEB1210039-001."
Ok sure..so many people out there ... on youtube, on other forums etc think it was the '64... Thanks for that clarification...
 
Ree
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Makes me wonder as well, but Fratello's article seems to cite a credible source, Omega themselves.
Then the new 321 cal is actually based on Gene Cernan's -64 (no facets)? Not Ed White's
 
lexieb007
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Ree Ree
Makes me wonder as well, but Fratello's article seems to cite a credible source, Omega themselves.
Then the new 321 cal is actually based on Gene Cernan's -64 (no facets)? Not Ed White's
yeh... that's what got me wondering as well.. I've been reading a lot of the threads here (as a newbie)... it seems it took ages for collectors on this esteemed chat to clarify what the "real" first watch was - that walked on the moon and the "real" watch, that timed the Apollo 13 burn as well...
 
mac_omega
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Ree Ree
Makes me wonder as well, but Fratello's article seems to cite a credible source, Omega themselves.
Then the new 321 cal is actually based on Gene Cernan's -64 (no facets)? Not Ed White's

As both, the -64 and -63 have HF-cases there are no facets on either of them, only -65 has these facets
 
Ree
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mac_omega mac_omega
As both, the -64 and -63 have HF-cases there are no facets on either of them, only -65 has these facets
Ah hadn't noticed that. Makes sense.
 
M'Bob
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mac_omega mac_omega
As both, the -64 and -63 have HF-cases there are no facets on either of them, only -65 has these facets

Ive seen 63’s with facets.
 
SpeedyPhill
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As a spaceflight aficionado I always had a soft spot for the Gemini era ... as an Omega Speedmaster fan, especially for Gemini IV spacewalk
Here's a scale model I had commissioned in 2015 to celebrate " 50 years first US spacewalk ", an anniversary completely forgotten by Omega after they brought out the 2005 "Gemini IV" Speedmaster version... note my scale model mentioned 105.003-64
.
EdWhite_Speedmaster.jpg

.
Checking my 50 years old NASA photo-collection, I have 38 Gemini IV photos which show the Omega Speedmaster chronographs used by both Gemini IV astronauts James McDivitt and Edward White... to be precise; 10 Pre-mission, 22 mission and 6 Post-mission photos...
Most of these were used for collaboration with @Omegafanman for his excellent video: 4 Speedmasters on Gemini IV
.
☕
During a couple of weeks after the Gemini IV mission, June 7 to June 20, astronaut Edward White was seen wearing his NASA-issued Omega Speedmaster 105.003 on a long black velcro strap... Photos taken June 24 onwards, show him wearing an Omega Speedmaster on steel mesh JB Champion bracelet...
Here are a few cut outs of the very best photographs;
James McDivitt's Speedmaster 105.003 photographed June 7 onboard recovery ship USS Wasp
Edward White's Speedmaster 105.003 photographed June 16 during a visit to Brooks AFB in San Antonio - Texas
.
MoonwatchUniverse_McDivitt.jpg

.
MoonwatchUniverse_White.jpg
 
lexieb007
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...Speedy Phil....
Great stuff! Sure.. so is your plaque wrong? Where did the info come from (to make you think they were 64's??) And the digital inprints on those photos? ('63...where did that come from?)...So were they '63's or '64's? What is the definitive answer?!
Edited:
 
lexieb007
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SpeedyPhill SpeedyPhill
As a spaceflight aficionado I always had a soft spot for the Gemini era ... as an Omega Speedmaster fan, especially for Gemini IV spacewalk
Here's a scale model I had commissioned in 2015 to celebrate " 50 years first US spacewalk ", an anniversary completely forgotten by Omega after they brought out the 2005 "Gemini IV" Speedmaster version... note my scale model mentioned 105.003-64
.
EdWhite_Speedmaster.jpg

.
Checking my 50 years old NASA photo-collection, I have 38 Gemini IV photos which show the Omega Speedmaster chronographs used by both Gemini IV astronauts James McDivitt and Edward White... to be precise; 10 Pre-mission, 22 mission and 6 Post-mission photos...
Most of these were used for collaboration with @Omegafanman for his excellent video: 4 Speedmasters on Gemini IV
.
☕
During a couple of weeks after the Gemini IV mission, June 7 to June 20, astronaut Edward White was seen wearing his NASA-issued Omega Speedmaster 105.003 on a long black velcro strap... Photos taken June 24 onwards, show him wearing an Omega Speedmaster on steel mesh JB Champion bracelet...
Here are a few cut outs of the very best photographs;
James McDivitt's Speedmaster 105.003 photographed June 7 onboard recovery ship USS Wasp
Edward White's Speedmaster 105.003 photographed June 16 during a visit to Brooks AFB in San Antonio - Texas
.
MoonwatchUniverse_McDivitt.jpg

.
MoonwatchUniverse_White.jpg
4.06 mins in on that wonderful youtube Phil... the slide says they were 105.003-64's.... what's the source of that slide?
 
lexieb007
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If the spacewalk was in mid '65 and NASA had just commissioned Omega for space flight, wouldn't they have chosen brand new Omega 003's? ie more likely 64's than 63's?
 
SpeedyPhill
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To answer Your questions, the -64 was added in the slides of my Spaceflight Timepieces powerpoint, a lecture I have given in 33 countries since the late 1990s...
Only in 2020, the Omega Heritage team came up with the -63 information, and FratelloWatches brought their interesting article about the -63
📖
IMHO this sounded really logical, as the watches-to-be-tested were requested in the summer of 1964, with Astronaut Chief Donald Slayton's procurement memorandum dated September 21, 1964 and NASA engineer James Ragan's request for proposal dated October 21, 1964
At that time, Omega USA surely possessed -63 Speedmaster chronographs, as I guess the -64 chronographs barely arrived in the country...
The NASA "destructive" testing took place from December 1964 to March 1965... ... and the very first official photos of those NASA Omega Speedmaster chronographs were a series of weight & balace images dated March 3, 1965 showing Gemini III astronaut John Young wearing one of those wristwatches on an elastic band!
.
NASA_Speedmaster-63.jpg

☕
I had already asked the question in another topic on this subject: The pair of Speedies worn by Ed White = 105.003-64 ( not -63 ? )...
https://omegaforums.net/threads/new-reveals-about-the-nasa-space-program-watch-choice.42644/
.
Updated my slides since the Fratellowatches article;
Omega_EdWhite-63.jpg
 
SpeedyPhill
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https://www.fratellowatches.com/why-ed-white-wore-two-speedmaster-105-003-watches/
I have just re-read the May 26, 2020 FratelloWatches article, which mentioned that James McDivitt, the actual Command Pilot on Gemini IV, also wore an Omega Speedmaster, which Omega identified as a 105.003-63 with NASA serial 4 CF5503 and SEB1210039-001
Of course we all know Gemini IV astronaut James McDivitt also wore 2 Omega Speedmaster chronographs, one on each wrist ... 😉
 
befobe
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This thread confirms I'm happy to follow this forum. Thanks for these infos👍
 
SpeedyPhill
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It's a question that baffled Omega Speedmaster Spaceflight fans for decades and Omega came out with the info as they had re-released the classic & iconic no crown guards Speedmaster with 321 movement...
One last note... the only photos I have seen on the subject of the destructive NASA testing of the wristwatches, are no TEST photos but more probably MAINTENANCE photos as the Speedmasters shown are clearly "Professional" dial with crown guards 105.012 versions
( 1968 NASA photos ? ).
.
Ragan006.jpg RaganJames105012.jpg
 
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