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What is "Vintage"?

saulgoodman
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Recently, I have developed an interest in learning about "vintage" watches with an eye to one day adding one to my collection. I soon realized that the more I read, the less I could find consensus about what "vintage" really means in the watch world. With the latest craze being the acquisition of pre-owned watches, and Submariners and Speedmasters from the 70's and 80's skyrocketing in price, many watches from the 80's and 90's are now being offered as "vintage". I read somewhere that eBay considers watches over 100 years old to be antiques, and watches between 50 and 99 years old to be vintage. While true consensus will be impossible to determine, I am interested in what the members here who collect watches think "vintage" really is, and how you feel about watches that are scarcely 20 years old being touted as vintage?
 
kov
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The word Vintage comes from "Vingt ans d'age" - literally Twenty years old - in french.

I think in Omega world, the common sense of vintage recently got aligned to the end of Tritium usage on dials and hands, replaced by Luminova / Superluminova from ~1998 on. To me it works quite well.

It will last another couple of decades till the common sens of antique gets aligned to the end of Radium usage in the early sixties 😀
 
MMMD
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“Vintage” is a function of the age of the person making the assessment. The formula is simple: divide your age by 2 and add 7. Anything older than that is vintage... for you.
 
kov
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MMMD MMMD
The formula is simple: divide your age by 2 and add 7. Anything older than that is... not for you.

FIFY 😉

That's the golden rule for dating 😁
 
JwRosenthal
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I'm 47 and think of watches up to the late 70's as vintage. 80's-00 are just old watches (not yet vintage). The state of Maryland considers cars older than 20 years old "historic", and my collector car insurance 25 years. In the world of architecture, 50 years (one generation) seems to be the mark for "historic"...yes, even bad 60's ranchers are now considered historic 😲
 
saulgoodman
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
I'm 47 and think of watches up to the late 70's as vintage. 80's-00 are just old watches (not yet vintage). The state of Maryland considers cars older than 20 years old "historic", and my collector car insurance 25 years. In the world of architecture, 50 years (one generation) seems to be the mark for "historic"...yes, even bad 60's ranchers are now considered historic 😲

How standards vary. In the watch world a 60's Speedmaster is now in the super vintage category with a price to go along with that, and a 60's Submariner is achieving the status of unobtainium. In their place sellers are sneaking in twenty year old models as vintage. Granted, one day they will be, but the value to be had is being diluted since it is paid up front. A dangerous premise for the watch world in my view.
 
Rochete
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For me, up to 1979. From then on, just old and mostly uninteresting.
 
Wryfox
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Simple...my son is modern, I am vintage, my father is an antique.

Joking aside, vintage is very commonly seen as post war to 20 yrs ago, antique as pre war. That works in many many aspects of collecting, not just watches.
 
MAndrewGray
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Also new to the forum, but having just recently sold some watches on eBay, I wasn't as cerebral about the use of the word "vintage" in my descriptions. The watches I had that were from the 70's, 80's or 90's I listed as vintage and the newer ones I listed as pre-owned. eBay did not censor me on either, so I suppose it is up to the individual seller as to the use of the word. I recently purchased a 1970 stainless seamaster and a 1975 gold plated Geneve on eBay, and wish I has perused this forum a little more thoroughly before doing so. I think I may have done okay on my purchases, but that remains to be seen. I will put the watches up on the forum for discussion later to see how I did.
 
WatchCor
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As a side note i've seen the word neovintage been used for watches from the 90ties. Don't know if that's a actual thing/word to use though.👎

The line is blurry to me, but I'd call anything older than the early 80s as vintage.

kov kov
The word Vintage comes from "Vingt ans d'age" - literally Twenty years old - in french.

I think in Omega world, the common sense of vintage recently got aligned to the end of Tritium usage on dials and hands, replaced by Luminova / Superluminova from ~1998 on. To me it works quite well.

It will last another couple of decades till the common sens of antique gets aligned to the end of Radium usage in the early sixties 😀

Wau , the things I learn here. Thanks @kov
 
saulgoodman
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Rochete Rochete
For me, up to 1979. From then on, just old and mostly uninteresting.

Interesting. So why the cut-off in 1979? What to you would make a 1979 Submariner vintage and a 1980 not?
 
STANDY
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A lot use the Quartz crisis/era as the end of vintage (early 70s)

I own a lot of vintage watches and 1971 is the latest with mostly being in the 50s to late 60s which some call the golden era of vintage Omega and Longines
(57 was when the Speedmaster Seamaster and Railmaster started hence the 60year reissue of all three two years ago)

This link is worth a read
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_crisis
 
MMMD
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kov kov
The word Vintage comes from "Vingt ans d'age" - literally Twenty years old - in french...

Hmm... I just checked with my etymologist and she tells me this: Latin vinum (wine) --> vindemia (grape harvest) --> Old French vendage (grape harvest) --> English vintage.
I like your etymology better though, because what the hell do watches have to do with wine.
 
kanye_mouse
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I've always looked at Rolex moving to 5-figure references around the 80s as the rough dividing line between vintage and non-vintage (with late 80s and 90s tritium now comfortably being "neo-vintage"). E.g. 1016 --> 14270: 1989; 5500 --> 14000: 1988. A 16800 Submariner is a perfect "transitional" example of going from vintage to modern, imo, and its production was basically through the 80s.
 
saulgoodman
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kanye_mouse kanye_mouse
I've always looked at Rolex moving to 5-figure references around the 80s as the rough dividing line between vintage and non-vintage (with late 80s and 90s tritium now comfortably being "neo-vintage"). E.g. 1016 --> 14270: 1989; 5500 --> 14000: 1988. A 16800 Submariner is a perfect "transitional" example of going from vintage to modern, imo, and its production was basically through the 80s.

That is a good line of thinking. As for the terminology, it is a slippery slope to accept all of it as valid; Transitional, Neo-Vintage, Vintage, Super Vintage, etc. We live in a world full of this; Low Fat, Less Fat, 2% Fat, Diet. It blurs the lines too much and dilutes the meaning. That is why I am trying to establish if there is a consensus between vintage and not.
 
kov
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MMMD MMMD
Hmm... I just checked with my etymologist and she tells me this: Latin vinum (wine) --> vindemia (grape harvest) --> Old French vendage (grape harvest) --> English vintage.
I like your etymology better though, because what the hell do watches have to do with wine.

Well I am french speaking and grape harvest spells vendange [vɑ̃dɑ̃ʒ] so if you pronounce it right, it sounds far away from vintage [ˈvɪntɪdʒ] 😉 Also, what's the link between grape harvest and wabi-sabi? voyons.gif

But maybe that's the reason why I am not an etymologist 😜
 
MRC
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kov kov
Well I am french speaking and grape harvest spells vendange [vɑ̃dɑ̃ʒ] so if you pronounce it right, it sounds far away from vintage [ˈvɪntɪdʒ] 😉 Also, what's the link between grape harvest and wabi-sabi? voyons.gif

French words that were adopted into English often changed pronunciation. Their meaning too, "Je vous demande..." has a rather different emphasis to "I demand you...".

James Nichol said:
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.
Nichol is Canadian 😉

After working in Montreal for a while I was very pleased to be told by une fille d'Orleans that my accent was very rural French. Yay, I don't sound English 😎
 
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