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What exctly are the advantages of Co-Axial Escapement over traditional escapement?

J
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There are many videos and animations and articles about how great this is. Only one video about how it works and it isn't very clear. Nowhere on Omega's website explains this.

What exactly are the advantages of this co-axial escapement over the traditional lever?
 
snunez
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There's a whole bunch (and I do mean a lot) of discussion of this over on WUS. Best to start by reviewing that.
 
K
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J jxh57601206
There are many videos and animations and articles about how great this is. Only one video about how it works and it isn't very clear. Nowhere on Omega's website explains this.

What exactly are the advantages of this co-axial escapement over the traditional lever?

Omega probably decided to do something to add exclusivity to their brand, when their existing (and extremely good) 3 hand movement was in reality a rebadged ETA 2892, fitted to loads of other watches, mainly a lot cheaper, with spares widely available and capable of being looked after by any competent watchmaker.

So......Advantages

To Omega;

1) Marketing - differentiate the product
2) Novelty, allowing them to continue to charge a premium price
3) "Ownership" of replacement parts market, and the ability to limit reliable servicing to those who have the right tools and expertise, which largely comes down to Omega themselves, or their authorised service agents, although this may be as much about customer perception rather than reality. Tricker to work on than standard swiss lever though.

To the owner:

Moot.

As you might conclude, I'm not a fan although I do have 2 co-axial watches. There are a couple of current models I really like the look of, and I'd be in the market to buy now if they still had conventional movements. As it is, I won't, and my pocket thanks me for it 👍
 
STANDY
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K keepitsimple
Omega probably decided to do something to add exclusivity to their brand, when their existing (and extremely good) 3 hand movement was in reality a rebadged ETA 2892, fitted to loads of other watches, mainly a lot cheaper, with spares widely available and capable of being looked after by any competent watchmaker.

So......Advantages

To Omega;

1) Marketing - differentiate the product
2) Novelty, allowing them to continue to charge a premium price
3) "Ownership" of replacement parts market, and the ability to limit reliable servicing to those who have the right tools and expertise, which largely comes down to Omega themselves, or their authorised service agents, although this may be as much about customer perception rather than reality. Tricker to work on than standard swiss lever though.

To the owner:

Moot.

As you might conclude, I'm not a fan although I do have 2 co-axial watches. There are a couple of current models I really like the look of, and I'd be in the market to buy now if they still had conventional movements. As it is, I won't, and my pocket thanks me for it 👍

Also just to add to your post

10 years ago the whole industry was well marketed, and enthusiast collectors / buyers of new watches were Sooo washed up with the “In House” movement debate and snobbery.
This has waned in the last few years on forums, but boy was there some threads 5 years ago that had some craziness. I know @Nobel Prize gained his name in one of them. ( I will not open that box again by linking any threads )
 
Canuck
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One other advantage to Omega is the tendency of expensive escapement parts that wear out far faster than the parts in traditional lever escapements. Speaking personally, I will never own a watch with a co-axial escapement. Change for the sake of change. I have several watches with lever escapement which rival the accuracy of co-axials as discussed herein. My Rolex Date-Just (30 years old), all original except the mainspring, runs within 5 seconds per month!
 
JeremyS
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I’ve always wondered that myself, advertising aside. For example, how would something like the 8900 perform if one retained the free-sprung balance, and used a “regular” Swiss lever escapement. Regardless, at this point Omega has sunk so much into going full-coaxial across the range there’s no way they can extract themselves from claiming coaxial is the horological second-coming. They’re not alone: others have tinkered with the escapement in pursuit of a novel engineering approach. Most recently, Grand Seiko released a completely new hi-beat movement with a star-shaped escape wheel.

Suspicions aside, I’ve had no issues with my coaxials. However, they haven’t proven any more consistent or accurate timekeepers than any of my other mechanicals. So long as parts and service exist, the coaxial should be fine. I’m just not sure it offers any real-world advantages.
 
gbesq
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Mostly hype. The design does reduce friction for the escapement, but it does nothing for the rest of the movement. That being said, I own a SMPc with the 2500d and a Globemaster with the 8900, both coaxials, and they have proven to be highly accurate and very reliable movements.
 
VetPsychWars
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I had one CMW rant at me how the 550 movement is so much better than the more modern movements as the parts don't wear out as fast. Not sure If I agree, but whatever. I had a 2500-something in a DeVille that I sold and the 840-whatever in the 60th anniversary Railmaster that works great if it doesn't get magnetized and still in chronometer spec even when it is, though +1 second a day is better than +5.

Tom
 
dennisthemenace
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Archer Archer
Oh that one brought back memories...good old M4tt...his way to debate was to deliberately misinterpret what you said, and then bury you with a mountain of garbage
FIFY.
 
kwakjoe
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I think same could be said for a lot of things in watch-making; who actually needs a perpetual calendar or a moon phase?

For me, I just like knowing that I have a piece of George Daniels' invention sitting on my wrist, albeit quite small compared to the entirety of the watch.
 
TimeODanaos
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kwakjoe kwakjoe
For me, I just like knowing that I have a piece of George Daniels' invention sitting on my wrist, albeit quite small compared to the entirety of the watch.

You beat me to it. As a younger man, I went out and deliberately bought myself a cal 2500 because I wanted to honor Dr George Daniels, not because I was duped by the Hayek marketing machine of those days. And as I recall, I loved it. 🙄
Everyone now knows all about Dr Daniels' long efforts to persuade the industry, and without the spirit of innovation among both customers and designers (even if it does bring both pros and cons), an industry becomes moribund.
Come to think of it, let's also remember that in the 1990s the survival of the Swiss mechanical watch industry was by no means a done deal, so it's thank you Omega for selling lots of 2500s to people like me!
 
Archer
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dennisthemenace dennisthemenace
FIFY.

Do you remember his nonsense about the jittery Speedmaster chronograph hands all being attributed to how our brains work, so in his view they weren't jittery at all? I nearly fell out of my chair laughing when I first read that. 🤦
 
dennisthemenace
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Archer Archer
Do you remember his nonsense about the jittery Speedmaster chronograph hands all being attributed to how our brains work, so in his view they weren't jittery at all? I nearly fell out of my chair laughing when I first read that. 🤦
I remember it well Al, he said all of our brains were being confused because the chrono hand ticks six times a second and the seconds track was divided into five. ::facepalm1::
I also recall you putting him in his place during your spat with him about mainsprings and torque.
Reading some of contributions by some members here, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a member here under a different username.
 
Archer
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dennisthemenace dennisthemenace
I remember it well Al, he said all of our brains were being confused because the chrono hand ticks six times a second and the seconds track was divided into five. ::facepalm1::
I also recall you putting him in his place during your spat with him about mainsprings and torque.
Reading some of contributions by some members here, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a member here under a different username.

Oh yes, the misapplication of Hooke's law to a mainspring...I guess it was somewhat entertaining, and a pretty good illustration of Dunning-Kruger at work...
 
Stufflers Mom
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Archer Archer
Oh that one brought back memories...good old M4tt...his way to debate was to deliberately misinterpret what you said, and then bury you with a mountain of words...

He's still out there, this time over on TZ-UK (George and Dragon section page 18 onwards) where he is holding court trying to take down someone who is actually at the forefront of the UK's fight against the Coronavirus. He really is a weapons grade bellend who just can't handle the fact that he might not be the smartest guy on the planet.
The expert had enough of him and withdrew from the thread cutting off access to genuine first hand info. on what was going on, thankfully the expert was persuaded to return to the thread, but the man really could start an arguement in an empty house.
 
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