Forums Latest Members

Warning of Fake Seamaster Cosmic 2000 Divers 166.137 166.0137

  1. johnturbo Dec 31, 2021

    Posts
    6
    Likes
    8
    Hi folks,
    Taken in by what is most likely a genuine 1012 movement I bought a fake 166.137 on Ebay, and now I see the difference I also see they are everywhere, including one on Chrono24.

    I wanted to post this here because Google searches would have you believe nobody is faking these less desirable and complicated pieces. They are also somewhat convincing - many happy customers from these 100% feedback sellers.

    These watches:-
    * Are in "too good" condition, though have generally got some artificial aging. No degradation to faces, straps or bezels
    * Seem to be linked to Vienna, Austria and Malmo, Sweden. (Though a London based seller is also shifting them).
    * Seller histories also include the same models again and again, mostly old Omega models, Tag Heuer and Citizen Bullhead. (In my case three very very similar 166.137 were sold in the last month alone by the seller.)

    Signs in the detail:-
    * The shape of the knurled ring of the bezel is wrong and it lacks definition
    * Without fail they have perfect and perfectly working lume (a reface may give this, but all suspect ads have this demonstrated)
    * The lume strip on the hands is wrong (too wide)
    * The Omega logo on the crown is slightly too big
    * The finish is a bit too polished (yet with sharp corners etc) and if you look in the light very carefully this polish has not removed all manufacturing marks.
    * In many examples the 2 pieces of lume at 12'o clock are not parallel, but were on mine.
    * On mine and at least one other example, the caseback is not fitted correctly (or does not fit properly).

    I expect in all cases the movement is a correct piece taken from a cheap cosmic or similar.

    20211231_092202-2.jpg 20211231_092415-2.jpg 20211231_092924-2.jpg

    For reference here is a GENUINE side shot from a watch on sale:-

    Capture.JPG

    GENUINE Front Shot:-

    Capture2.JPG
     
    Edited Jan 2, 2022
  2. johnturbo Dec 31, 2021

    Posts
    6
    Likes
    8
  3. flqt-9000 Jan 2, 2022

    Posts
    671
    Likes
    961
    I was observing the multiplying of ads of this reference on ebay! Seems like the logo on the clasp is quite odd.
     
  4. Norfolk Jan 2, 2022

    Posts
    1,826
    Likes
    19,116
    Extract of archive for these now?
     
  5. johnturbo Jan 2, 2022

    Posts
    6
    Likes
    8
    When challenged the response from the seller was:-

    "The watch is 100% Authentic , the watch case and bezel and bracelet have been refurbished, in order to give it a good new look, it has been chromed as well."

    Chromed!!!

    How does one cross ref a movement serial number?

    Indeed the clasp logo also looks somewhat different, I think original ones were also blackened in the recess.

    The London (different) seller had an auction completing a few hours after my return request that imediately valnished. Would seem like a coincidence!
     
    ConElPueblo likes this.
  6. johnturbo Jan 2, 2022

    Posts
    6
    Likes
    8
    Just had a read about extracts.

    I am curious, but not sure I am £97 curious. The seller was pushing for an authentication. A bluff perhaps or maybe the serial number is correct for a 166.137 - which would make a Frankenstein rather than a fake. A real Ferrari engine in an Mr2 with a Ferrari body kit doth not a Ferrari make.
     
  7. cineaste Jan 2, 2022

    Posts
    382
    Likes
    729
    Thanks for the warning! I also noticed quite a few for sale recently and was thinking of getting one.
     
  8. johnturbo Jan 2, 2022

    Posts
    6
    Likes
    8
    Couple more differences spotted.
    I've looked at a lot of photos of genuine watches. The shape of the back of the clasp has an extra kink to bring the hinge pin away from the strap (so it sits flat). This detail has been almost missed on the fake - just a hint of a kink. Sorry for quality of my photos!

    The other thing is bigger gaps between links on the genuine watches. This is a bit less of a 'precise' difference granted!


    Untitled.jpg
     
    MtV, flqt-9000 and Mark020 like this.
  9. ken_hodson Jan 3, 2022

    Posts
    48
    Likes
    59
    Thanks for sharing this. I was also looking at these, but will be much more wary of buying one now...
     
  10. Gulosten Jan 3, 2022

    Posts
    48
    Likes
    23
    Thanks for sharing, scary stuff! Where there is money, con artists follow :(
     
  11. JwRosenthal Jan 3, 2022

    Posts
    11,901
    Likes
    30,231
    It’s obvious these guys are moving downstream in the Omega catalog. Thanks for posting this PSA, if we still had sticky’s, I would vote for this to be at the top. Instead- this is my bump to the top.
     
    pmontoyap likes this.
  12. pmontoyap Jan 3, 2022

    Posts
    386
    Likes
    628
  13. wilderbeast Jan 3, 2022

    Posts
    782
    Likes
    3,868
    I wonder whether the fact integrated bracelets are having a moment again (and that dive watches will always be popular, of course) has prompted this move. Whatever the motivation, it’s worrying - I used to feel that no one would bother to fake a Cosmic 2000, but I suppose the dive watches are a slightly different consideration within that.

    thanks for the heads up, OP!
     
  14. johnturbo Jan 3, 2022

    Posts
    6
    Likes
    8
    I think any NOS or "surprisingly good condition" yet boxless 1012 that isnt from a very trustworthy source is highly suspect. The sellers of these diver's "other items" are Seiko Pepsi, Tag (various) one of which at least was spotted as fake, and lots of other recurring 1012 movement Omegas, including lesser Cosmics.

    If you Ebay "omega 1012" or "vintage seamaster" - lots of highly suspect condition watches.
    I still think movements are genuine - but there are a LOT of them.

    This is all very disheartening.
     
    Edited Jan 3, 2022