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Views on this Longines

W
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Dear all,
I am looking for a black dial dress watch and this Longines has got my attention. It is for sale in a vintage watch store close to my workplace, here
in the Netherlands.
Last mont the seller tried to sell the watch on Catawiki, but the highest bid (610€) did not attain the minimum price. According to Catawiki, the price is 950-1150€.
The seller indicates the following features: the watch dates from 1953; case diameter 34,5mm;
case is made of 18 kt solid gold with original
parts; Longines movement, calibre 23ZS with reference number 6673-2.
I have tried to compare this watch to similar ones
on the Internet, but I have not found comparable samples.
I was wondering if your expert eye can detect anything fundamentally wrong in this watch, on the basis of these pictures, please. Besides, is the price advised by Catawiki reasonable?
Thanks in advance for your view.
 
80A2BFAA-210A-452C-AD93-A9F9E7C18772.png BE71DB5F-B091-42AB-AD98-DB0B9C6E91B2.png 633C0181-5D5F-4A81-AFBC-05AE25C0D3B1.png 5E4B3EAC-084C-4D8A-A2BA-92CC96D8891F.png 3BCE1D76-8A3C-41AE-86E1-FA845B4BBCC6.png 792B9EDD-A07B-488F-9AF5-B59F9EAEDD92.png 359CA3A7-71DE-4FA5-9162-6F7C02B1F8BE.png FF1BC4E0-1DCC-4781-A29C-F978B230F3B7.png F5E24480-2E3D-40FD-8385-38E1DDEE4FF0.png 323F704B-6989-4EA2-8832-53586FC63722.png
Tony C.
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The watch appears to be genuine, original, and in good, to very good overall condition. Black dials are notoriously difficult to photograph well, so this one is difficult to assess.

Broadly speaking it is not a watch that most collectors would seeks, as the case, and lugs in particular, are not of a currently fashionable style. But assuming that you like the watch, and would be buying it wear, with few if any concerns about re-sale value, that should not be so important.

I would not ever take auction estimates seriously, and especially those at Catawiki, where the knowledge of their "experts" is, to put it kindly, often underwhelming. That said, because of the current high value of gold, the watch is probably worth at least 800€, and could certainly bring more if two interested parties were to bid in an auction setting.

One final note. While vintage Longines are widely held in high regard by collectors, models such as this one, which are not of the fashionable style, do not carry premiums related to the brand. In other words, a fashionable vintage Longines will typically be valued more (or much more) highly than similar watches produced by other manufacturers. But styles that are not widely sought typically cost around the same as those produced by similar quality manufacturers.
 
W
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Tony C. Tony C.
The watch appears to be genuine, original, and in good, to very good overall condition. Black dials are notoriously difficult to photograph well, so this one is difficult to assess.

Broadly speaking it is not a watch that most collectors would seeks, as the case, and lugs in particular, are not of a currently fashionable style. But assuming that you like the watch, and would be buying it wear, with few if any concerns about re-sale value, that should not be so important.

I would not ever take auction estimates seriously, and especially those at Catawiki, where the knowledge of their "experts" is, to put it kindly, often underwhelming. That said, because of the current high value of gold, the watch is probably worth at least 800€, and could certainly bring more if two interested parties were to bid in an auction setting.

One final note. While vintage Longines are widely held in high regard by collectors, models such as this one, which are not of the fashionable style, do not carry premiums related to the brand. In other words, a fashionable vintage Longines will typically be valued more (or much more) highly than similar watches produced by other manufacturers. But styles that are not widely sought typically cost around the same as those produced by similar quality manufacturers.
Thank you very much for your thorough answer. It’s very much appreciated.
Considering that I also like the Conquest Heritage black dial 35 mm, which new costs about 800 euro, I will need to assess the pros and cons of buying that vintage or this new one. Food for thought for myself...
 
SportChief
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Personally, I like the watch. Tony C. is correct that those types of watches are not what contemporary collectors seek out for vintage Longines (yellow gold, dress watch, sculpted lugs). However, the case looks unpolished and it's a very high quality case of heavy 18kt gold with unique, figural lugs. Plus the watch seems to have an original crown and possibly original black dial, which as mentioned, are not as common. The 23zs is a higher-grade caliber. It was the sweep second version of the 23z.
 
kip595
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W Warmond
Thank you very much for your thorough answer. It’s very much appreciated.
Considering that I also like the Conquest Heritage black dial 35 mm, which new costs about 800 euro, I will need to assess the pros and cons of buying that vintage or this new one. Food for thought for myself...

Just food for thought; if you like both and intend to wear them the Conquest is easily available, whereas the vintage piece may be difficult to find again. I had a similar choice between a bubble back Rolex from around 1947-48 with a two color dial (white and red, faded to a hazy orange) about ten years ago for an at the time new SMP. I wasn't really into vintage yet and at the time the two were priced comparatively. The Rolex even had papers of providence showing sale to a British soldier after being demobilized, not that I realized how significant that was yet...anyway, I went for the new option...annnnd ten years later I've yet to even find a similar bubbleback from the era.

Like the guy says in that Indiana Jones movie: "You must choose wisely." 😉
 
Dan S
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IMO, it's hard to make a strong case that the watch is worth much more than the auction price. Catawiki knows nothing, I would never believe their estimates. I would offer only slightly more than the highest auction bid, maybe 650. You will be paying in cash, and there are no fees to the seller. It's a nice watch, but not an easy watch to sell, as Tony mentioned.
 
W
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kip595 kip595
Just food for thought; if you like both and intend to wear them the Conquest is easily available, whereas the vintage piece may be difficult to find again. I had a similar choice between a bubble back Rolex from around 1947-48 with a two color dial (white and red, faded to a hazy orange) about ten years ago for an at the time new SMP. I wasn't really into vintage yet and at the time the two were priced comparatively. The Rolex even had papers of providence showing sale to a British soldier after being demobilized, not that I realized how significant that was yet...anyway, I went for the new option...annnnd ten years later I've yet to even find a similar bubbleback from the era.

Like the guy says in that Indiana Jones movie: "You must choose wisely." 😉
You have a very good point about availability, and I take note of this point. Thanks for the input.
 
W
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I would like to buy this watch to wear it and in a near future the main components of the movement may need replacement, considering it is 70 year old. Are original components of this movement easy to find or do you think I will probably need to get non-original components?
 
Dan S
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W Warmond
I would like to buy this watch to wear it and in a near future the main components of the movement may need replacement, considering it is 70 year old. Are original components of this movement easy to find or do you think I will probably need to get non-original components?

Maybe you will be lucky for a long time. Or maybe you will need parts. It's very hard to know. Unless you are knowledgable and experienced, you will need to rely on an experienced watchmaker who can find parts as needed. In extreme cases, you may need to buy a second watch to supply parts. Welcome to the world of vintage watches.
 
Andy_timeman
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Everyone's comments spot on... the watch looks in nice order and whilst not the hottest Longines in a funny market everyone's tastes are different and it sounds like suits your intended purpose well. It has a high grade movement and the case and movement condition likely lends itself to a life outside Pakistan or somewhere similar with limited use. The dial is hard to assess from those pics but my guess original from remainder of the watch condition and a gold watch with a black dial that is good is a great combo... personally like it much more than a new/late model piece but each to their own...
 
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