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Universal Geneve - unusual placement of marks on the OUTSIDE of the case back?

  1. MarktheTime

    MarktheTime Aug 15, 2019

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    Hi, I’m curious to know if any of our resident UG experts have ever come across a Universal Geneve compax of any kind from the mid/late 1940s with the case maker’s stamp and other marks on the rear OUTSIDE of the case, along with the serial and reference numbers that one would usually expect to see there...? This one pictured, from a yellow gold Tri-Compax, appears to show a hammer with 128 (Jung & Cie?), an owl (French gold?) and maybe a woman's side profile (??), along with 18k / 0.750. Perhaps this is an example of French cased watch, but I’ve never seen this outside placement before (I don't have Sala handy at the moment to check) and that has me wondering if something might be amiss. For what it’s worth, the inside of the case back simply has the Universal logo at the top, and “SWISS” at the bottom, and not much else is visible other than perlage finishing. The movement does not appear to have "HOX" or any other identifying stamps inside, other than the usual Universal Geneve wording, 481 caliber, etc. Any thoughts and/or other examples of similar markings/placement would be appreciated. Thanks!
     
    Screen Shot 2019-08-15 at 8.28.43 PM.png
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  2. Larry S

    Larry S Color Commentator for the Hyperbole. Aug 15, 2019

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    French made case?
     
  3. MarktheTime

    MarktheTime Aug 15, 2019

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    That’s what I’m thinking but would love to see some other examples of full markings - as well as reference and serial numbers - on the outside, rather than on the inside...
     
  4. LouS

    LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Aug 15, 2019

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    The Helvetia head (the woman's head) is the swiss hallmark for 18K gold. in addition, you can see the hammerhead 128, which is the maker's mark for Jung & Cie, a Swiss firm and one of Universal's regular suppliers. The owl, on the other hand, is a french hallmark for a foreign production gold case. So Swiss made case imported into France.
     
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  5. MarktheTime

    MarktheTime Aug 15, 2019

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    Thanks - great info. But still surprised to see all of this on the OUTSIDE of the caseback. Is that a proper location in the world of UG? If so, can anyone post other similar examples? Thanks!
     
  6. ELV web

    ELV web Aug 15, 2019

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    I think it is easier for custom inspection back then.
     
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  7. MarktheTime

    MarktheTime Aug 16, 2019

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    Still, would love to see pictures of some other examples of similar placement...
     
  8. MarktheTime

    MarktheTime Aug 16, 2019

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  9. Jonatan

    Jonatan Aug 18, 2019

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  10. billving

    billving Sep 29, 2019

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    I saw that same watch. I don’t believe that I have any with markings on the outside but I’ll check. I questioned the same thing. But I also noticed in this piece that it had make spring bars. Modified?
     
  11. MarktheTime

    MarktheTime Oct 25, 2019

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    Well, mystery "solved" if circumstantial evidence can be conclusive. Just landed this 18k YG reference 12253, and am in love. The unusual placement of the stamps on the OUTSIDE of the case back had me concerned, but I've found several other examples of this EXACT reference, with the same placement, including one within just a few digits of my serial number (though conditions of them aren't great, or clearly suggest a redial in one example). Photos (and one link) below. Suggest Swiss case, imported into France, as @LouS and @Larry S suggested above. Thanks to OF community, as always!
    Couldn't be more pleased to welcome it to the collection.


    One example at link here -
    https://www.orologiodacollezione.it/EN/orologi.php?IdFotogallery=1709&IdPro=279
     
    IMG_7957.jpg IMG_0772.jpeg IMG_7252.jpeg IMG_7253.jpeg IMG_6521.jpeg image.jpeg
    Edited Oct 25, 2019