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Carlton-Browne
·Also found this to be a 7042 -
Universal Genève Four Digit References
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerJust for the fun of it I combined a couple of things. I now have a database of 55 UG's with 4 digit serials. I also had records on a lot of UG 3rd party 4 digit serials. So total is now 162. Little sample:
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Woops
·Thanks for the warm words gang and posting your watches. Some total stunners here already.
Both dibs are duly noted, in order, thank you.
Exactly @Carlton-Browne . That Colonial is my watch, actually, and it surprised me too. It’s dangerous building any case using just one watch but this was the piece that started me thinking that perhaps the four digit era finished much earlier than 1940.
Outstanding research @Mark020 , as usual. I have also been compiling these four digit references, looking for codes and patterns, like a lunatic. So far, no dice.
However, I have noticed one interesting thing, to me at least. I have no serials in 1935 and none in 1939. If you see similar it would suggest the production band for the four digits was very brief indeed.
Both dibs are duly noted, in order, thank you.
I couldn't help straying over to the Colonial thread:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/universal-tre-tacche-colonial-wristwatch.75152/
If we look at one example, it's showing a 5 digit reference - which surprised me.
Exactly @Carlton-Browne . That Colonial is my watch, actually, and it surprised me too. It’s dangerous building any case using just one watch but this was the piece that started me thinking that perhaps the four digit era finished much earlier than 1940.
Outstanding research @Mark020 , as usual. I have also been compiling these four digit references, looking for codes and patterns, like a lunatic. So far, no dice.
However, I have noticed one interesting thing, to me at least. I have no serials in 1935 and none in 1939. If you see similar it would suggest the production band for the four digits was very brief indeed.
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CaptainWinsor
·Since you mentioned Colonial, I’ve posted a pic in that forum I’m sure most have not seen before.
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerHowever, I have noticed one interesting thing, to me at least. I have no serials in 1935 and none in 1939. If you see similar it would suggest the production band for the four digits was very brief indeed.
Interesting thing is of course that there are also quite some chronographs with 500/600k numbers without a (4 digit) reference
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerlooking for codes and patterns, like a lunatic. So far, no dice.
https://www.catawiki.com/nl/l/59228817-universal-geneve-chronograph-ref-5923-heren-1901-1949#gallery
https://www.bukowskis.com/en/auctio...pur-base-1000-chronograph-wristwatch-34-5-mm#
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...ned&queryID=5e624565d8ae037c63fa0d1387dc6d60#
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martinc
·I would just like to add what is probably obvious to all more experienced OF colleagues here - I am convinced that some of the 4 digit references have continued as 5 digit references.
And it’s quite interesting to observe the numbering “logic”.
Obviously I don’t have 100% proof as I have not always seen both versions in the metal but only on photos or on archive b&w plates in Sala, but anyway:
For example ref. 7339, a steel Compax with cal. 283 and a bigger case has become reference 22302, while consecutive ref. 7340 which is a steel Compax with practically identical design and cal. 283, but a slightly smaller case, has become ref. 22201.
Similarly, the small steel Compax ref. 5955 (cal. 281) has very probably become reference 22202.
Or, small ladies’ square Compur in steel with cal. 270, ref. 7131, exists in the 5-digit company archives as ref. 22104.
These are just some examples which I have documented.
And it’s quite interesting to observe the numbering “logic”.
Obviously I don’t have 100% proof as I have not always seen both versions in the metal but only on photos or on archive b&w plates in Sala, but anyway:
For example ref. 7339, a steel Compax with cal. 283 and a bigger case has become reference 22302, while consecutive ref. 7340 which is a steel Compax with practically identical design and cal. 283, but a slightly smaller case, has become ref. 22201.
Similarly, the small steel Compax ref. 5955 (cal. 281) has very probably become reference 22202.
Or, small ladies’ square Compur in steel with cal. 270, ref. 7131, exists in the 5-digit company archives as ref. 22104.
These are just some examples which I have documented.
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerI think something along these lines makes absolutely sense.
Did some calculations on the numbers I have. Yellow is my guesstimate...
Perhaps it makes more sense that they started the batch with 0 and numbered through to 99 so that the 5922 batch will have been 35 pieces.
In the meantime I'm now convinced that the 38-57-69 is the number within the batch.
Did some calculations on the numbers I have. Yellow is my guesstimate...
Perhaps it makes more sense that they started the batch with 0 and numbered through to 99 so that the 5922 batch will have been 35 pieces.
In the meantime I'm now convinced that the 38-57-69 is the number within the batch.
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawer
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerAccording to this catalogue from 1937 Universal Geneve produced reference 3022 to 3048 but I can't find any example: https://orologi.forumfree.it/?t=69910053. If there is any logic in numbering these references they should have serials below 600k while according to the accepted UG serial number table 500-600k is from 1930-1936 😁
Edited:
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerThe catalogue in my previous post is labelled D3. There is also a D2 which contains references 2036 to 2081. Of which there are - of course - no examples to be found....
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerThis reference 6484 is really a unique one:
- Serial and reference on outside caseback but not next to each other
- Batch number (32) inside caseback
- Also "1*" in caseback
- Movement perhaps numbered(?)
Link: https://watchcharts.com/listing/697456-1930s-universal-geneve-cal-246
- Serial and reference on outside caseback but not next to each other
- Batch number (32) inside caseback
- Also "1*" in caseback
- Movement perhaps numbered(?)
Link: https://watchcharts.com/listing/697456-1930s-universal-geneve-cal-246
Edited:
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerPicture from a catalogue showing that 4 and 5 digit references were sold at the same time:
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerThis reference 6484 is really a unique one:
- Serial and reference on outside caseback but not next to each other
- Batch number (32) inside caseback
- Also "1*" in caseback
- Movement perhaps numbered(?)
Interesting enough also 32 & 1* in the caseback.
This website may earn commission from Ebay sales.
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerInteresting Zenith 5632 : https://www.chrono24.nl/zenith/zenith-compur-chronograph---cal-146--id26617277.htm
Serial: 667.938 and 58
Another one here: https://avaluero.com/explore/6791824-rare_vintage_zenith_18k_2_reg_chronograph_cal___146
Serial: 667.858 and 48
And yet another: https://veryimportantlot.com/en/lot-gallery/view/zenith-chronograph-kal-146-vintage-33788
Serial 667.944 and 65
Serial: 667.938 and 58
Another one here: https://avaluero.com/explore/6791824-rare_vintage_zenith_18k_2_reg_chronograph_cal___146
Serial: 667.858 and 48
And yet another: https://veryimportantlot.com/en/lot-gallery/view/zenith-chronograph-kal-146-vintage-33788
Serial 667.944 and 65
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bgrisso
·I've been traveling for a while and a bit late to the party. Huge congrats to the OP on a stunning dream watch !!!
i can contribute a few early examples, sadly none of them are in the collection any longer.
The first is a tank, I guess you could call it a 2 digit reference?
Next is a black compur and white compur. The black compur I think has a 4 digit ref (but I'm not finding it a the moment) and the white has no reference (just serial).
i can contribute a few early examples, sadly none of them are in the collection any longer.
The first is a tank, I guess you could call it a 2 digit reference?
Next is a black compur and white compur. The black compur I think has a 4 digit ref (but I'm not finding it a the moment) and the white has no reference (just serial).
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CaptainWinsor
·That tank is amazing
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bgrisso
·That tank is amazing
yah, I was stupid to sell it, but I never wore it
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bgrisso
·The white compur did not have a numbered mvmt and the case serial was 629XXX
the black Compur also did not have a numbered mvmt and I'm not readily finding the case serial for some reason, but I think it was lower than 645K IIRC, and now I'm realizing it was not a ref 5160, (I was mixing that up with another pic from the web, but that one is a 645K case serial, so that checks out with your records). However it still leaves me not sure the reference or case serial on my black Compur, for some reason I'm not finding any pics of the interior caseback, will keep digging......
