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UG 22297-3

Hal10000
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Hey folks,

Rather new to the world of tricompax and wondering if there are experts who can assess this for me.

As a longtime vintage watch collector, everything seems in order but I'm not too familiar with the ins and outs of these watches. Anything jump out at you?

I'm attracted to it because of the bracelet. It's a bit higher in price than others I've seen offered but I haven't seen any of the 22297's selling with a seemingly original bracelet:

Thanks!

https://lwmitalia.com/watch/univers...-full-calendar-moonphase-top-condition-1958s/

IMG_7630.webp IMG_7631.webp IMG_7632.webp IMG_7633.webp IMG_7634.webp IMG_7635.webp IMG_7636.webp
 
bgrisso
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You should post pics not just links (for the MB watch).

The LWM (first watch) looks fine to me offhand, I didn't do a super detailed review. That does not look like a UG bracelet, it's a very weird U logo that I have not seen and the clasp is not correctly signed, so I would assume its just something put together and would not assign any value to it. The watch looks nice overall, I'm not really tracking market prices to be able to comment on that.

The MB watch also looks nice, interestingly that's a short indice dial and the first example is long indice, which I think is more typical? I don't know enough to be able to comment on that. The case looks a bit polished on this example, and the dial not as clean, but overall still a nice watch.

Crowns are not signed on either example, and I would expect to see a signed crown.

not sure that box is original to watch on the first example, Fat U is a bit late for this serial? (can't remember the exact crossover, I could be wrong).
 
Hal10000
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bgrisso bgrisso
You should post pics not just links (for the MB watch).

The LWM (first watch) looks fine to me offhand, I didn't do a super detailed review. That does not look like a UG bracelet, it's a very weird U logo that I have not seen and the clasp is not correctly signed, so I would assume its just something put together and would not assign any value to it. The watch looks nice overall, I'm not really tracking market prices to be able to comment on that.

The MB watch also looks nice, interestingly that's a short indice dial and the first example is long indice, which I think is more typical? I don't know enough to be able to comment on that. The case looks a bit polished on this example, and the dial not as clean, but overall still a nice watch.

Crowns are not signed on either example, and I would expect to see a signed crown.

not sure that box is original to watch on the first example, Fat U is a bit late for this serial? (can't remember the exact crossover, I could be wrong).
Thanks for the reply! I was very unsure of that bracelet as well. Seemed odd to not have any manufacturer stamp. I like the looks of it, but something didn't add up.

My mistake not adding photos. Here's the Bain Watch.

I actually prefer it, not just for price but because it's in the USA, has nicer aged lume and of course has English day and date.

IMG_7649.webp IMG_7650.webp IMG_7651.webp
 
Larry S
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As an owner of one of this series I like both. Yep … that’s the going rate and has been for quite some time. Small pushers are cool. Not a lot out there.
 
Hal10000
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bgrisso bgrisso
You should post pics not just links (for the MB watch).

The LWM (first watch) looks fine to me offhand, I didn't do a super detailed review. That does not look like a UG bracelet, it's a very weird U logo that I have not seen and the clasp is not correctly signed, so I would assume its just something put together and would not assign any value to it. The watch looks nice overall, I'm not really tracking market prices to be able to comment on that.

The MB watch also looks nice, interestingly that's a short indice dial and the first example is long indice, which I think is more typical? I don't know enough to be able to comment on that. The case looks a bit polished on this example, and the dial not as clean, but overall still a nice watch.

Crowns are not signed on either example, and I would expect to see a signed crown.

not sure that box is original to watch on the first example, Fat U is a bit late for this serial? (can't remember the exact crossover, I could be wrong).
Thanks for the reply! I was very unsure of that bracelet as well. Seemed odd to not have any manufacture
Larry S Larry S
As an owner of one of this series I like both. Yep … that’s the going rate and has been for quite some time. Small pushers are cool. Not a lot out there.
Hey larry!

Thanks for the response!

I love the tiny pushers. It's one of the main reasons I'm attracted to this reference. I also think I like the straight batons of the -3 better than the other two.

One question about the Mathew Bain one is, as was pointed out by bgrisso, why are the indices on the 11:55 and 12:05 spot so small. I haven't seen those on others of this reference.

Other than that, the dial looks solid.

I should have bought one of these when I was first starting collecting 🤦🏻. They were a LOT cheaper 15 years ago. My taste unfortunately wasn't as sophisticated 🤪
 
bgrisso
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Hal10000 Hal10000
One question about the Mathew Bain one is, as was pointed out by bgrisso, why are the indices on the 11:55 and 12:05 spot so small. I haven't seen those on others of this reference.
It's not just those two, it's ALL the indices. You would need to do a deep dive on 22297 to research, I have vague recollection we've discussed this before, but I can't remember offhand. I don't think we have great documentation on the 22297-X references in general, it would be great if someone flushed that out at some point.

I know that you mean about the MB dial, it does feel a bit warmer. I like them both for different reasons.
 
Larry S
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bgrisso bgrisso
It's not just those two, it's ALL the indices. You would need to do a deep dive on 22297 to research, I have vague recollection we've discussed this before, but I can't remember offhand. I don't think we have great documentation on the 22297-X references in general, it would be great if someone flushed that out at some point.

I know that you mean about the MB dial, it does feel a bit warmer. I like them both for different reasons.
Indeed this series is very poorly documented.
 
bgrisso
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I always wanted to get one of this series, but hasn't happened, and not really in buying mode these days
 
Larry S
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Hal10000 Hal10000
Thanks for the reply! I was very unsure of that bracelet as well. Seemed odd to not have any manufacture

Hey larry!

Thanks for the response!

I love the tiny pushers. It's one of the main reasons I'm attracted to this reference. I also think I like the straight batons of the -3 better than the other two.

One question about the Mathew Bain one is, as was pointed out by bgrisso, why are the indices on the 11:55 and 12:05 spot so small. I haven't seen those on others of this reference.

Other than that, the dial looks solid.

I should have bought one of these when I was first starting collecting 🤦🏻. They were a LOT cheaper 15 years ago. My taste unfortunately wasn't as sophisticated 🤪
I think it’s fine, the indices are still symmetrical.
 
TexOmega
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@Larry S ......what's the Market for the larger size if these are 10k?

Or is it the reference making these US10k?
 
bgrisso
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TexOmega TexOmega
@Larry S ......what's the Market for the larger size if these are 10k?

Or is it the reference making these US10k?
I think its the small pushers, waterproof, etc. Different category from oversized earlier square pushers.
 
Larry S
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bgrisso bgrisso
I think it’s the small pushers, waterproof, etc. Different category from oversized earlier square pushers.
+ the unusual indice and dial configs.
 
Hal10000
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Larry S Larry S
+ the unusual indice and dial configs.
To be clear, is the Bain UG one to stay away from?

Also, what are my odds of finding a bracelet for this thing if I get it?

I'm trying to weigh that into the cost. Even if I pop on a vintage gay freres without a UG stamp.

More likely than not I plan to wear it on a private eyes GF style bracelet.
 
Larry S
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Hal10000 Hal10000
To be clear, is the Bain UG one to stay away from?

Also, what are my odds of finding a bracelet for this thing if I get it?

I'm trying to weigh that into the cost. Even if I pop on a vintage gay freres without a UG stamp.

More likely than not I plan to wear it on a private eyes GF style bracelet.
No … They are both fine. What I meant was that the dial configs in this series were unique. Re Bracelet … you could try for GF but an after market would work fine. Mine is strapped with a Hermes style.
IMG_6203.webp IMG_6204.webp
 
Hal10000
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Larry S Larry S
No … They are both fine. What I meant was that the dial configs in this series were unique. Re Bracelet … you could try for GF but an after market would work fine. Mine is strapped with a Hermes style.
IMG_6203.webp IMG_6204.webp
So utterly beautiful. The alpha hands are incredible.

I'm so happy to be back on these forums. Having knowledgeable people to bounce ideas off is both good for the wallet and good for the mind!

Thank you guys for all the support!

The past few years I've been falling down the UG rabbit hole.

F486614A-7E3F-4DB5-9858-15D5E57FF492.webp IMG_2373.webp
 
fizz
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I had considered the Matthew Bain 22297 over 3 years ago (yes it's been on sale that long, possibly longer) and had even discussed it with @bgrisso rather extensively back then.

Everything seemed to check out fine except the slight stain above the moonphase and the inexplicable shorter hour markers at 11 and 1 (I've not seen another example with that anomaly since). There was also another remark about the 9 on the date subdial being open or closed, but nothing was conclusive about that discussion.

On the whole, it's looks like a good specimen and worth considering in my view.
 
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