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Tudor are in house manufacturers why are Omega only i house design?

P
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[QUOTE="thatonewatchdude, post: 350977, member:Yeah I agree 100% nothing is honestly truly "in house" you have Nivarox who makes the mainsprings for almost every watchmaker besides tag, also tri tech who makes the luminova for almost every watchmaker, it all comes down to who made it first, they all hold patents. Rolex gets its overcoils from Breguet and shock protectors from KIF. "In house" is used entirely out of context.[/QUOTE]

Look at the stunt Tag pulled off and tries to convince us that call 1887 was in house. It turned out it was based on a Japanese Seiko movement. To give Seiko credit it was a good one but when you spend good money thinking you have a Swiss watch and it is not that is a problem.
 
thatonewatchdude
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I worded that incorrectly, but majority of their movement are ETA. Apologize about that mates, yes that was a big roll out from Basel
 
thatonewatchdude
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P PatrickJ
P thatonewatchdude
[QUOTE="thatonewatchdude, post: 350977, member:Yeah I agree 100% nothing is honestly truly "in house" you have Nivarox who makes the mainsprings for almost every watchmaker besides tag, also tri tech who makes the luminova for almost every watchmaker, it all comes down to who made it first, they all hold patents. Rolex gets its overcoils from Breguet and shock protectors from KIF. "In house" is used entirely out of context.

Look at the stunt Tag pulled off and tries to convince us that call 1887 was in house. It turned out it was based on a Japanese Seiko movement. To give Seiko credit it was a good one but when you spend good money thinking you have a Swiss watch and it is not that is a problem.
Yeah Tag is kind of all over the place sourcing their movements from ETA, Sellita, Zenith (I could understand from Zenith since they're a part of the LVMH group) etc.. and I didn't know about Seiko that's pretty insane.
 
Which Watch Next
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Is the Tag 1887 based on a sieko design, or is it manufactured by sieko? I think those are 2 very different things. There is In house design, and in house manufacturing. If a company is doing both, as mentioned earlier consumers will get the best a specific company can do, but not nessasarily the best... There is room for innovation, but there is a lot of room for growing pains as well that can lead too a bad reputation. It is a slippery and long slope.

Man spends six months and $1500 making sandwich from scratch.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/17/9344597/man-spent-six-months-1500-making-sandwich-from-scratch

Does anyone think it was the best sandwich ever or worth the effort?

In house just sounds good though doesn't it... I'm an if u can't do it better, then why bother person. Well, unless Swatch Group forces you to... Lol. If you have the cash, you can buy the company doing it best, put your name over theres' and call it in house. Swatch again. Just think swatch was the cheapie fun plastic Quartz watch of the eighties, and now they rule the watch world. They sold millions!!!! Cash was/is the great equalizer that allowed them to purchase all those precious brands, and the game is about power and more cash coming to your brand or brands.
 
abrod520
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TAG purchased the intellectual property from Seiko, for the base caliber that became the 1887 and then modified it to suit their own needs. It's a common practice in the industry, but TAG got themselves into hot water for calling it in-house in advertising and press materials.
 
Nobel Prize
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Which Watch Next Which Watch Next
Is the Tag 1887 based on a sieko design, or is it manufactured by sieko? I think those are 2 very different things. There is In house design, and in house manufacturing. If a company is doing both, as mentioned earlier consumers will get the best a specific company can do, but not nessasarily the best... There is room for innovation, but there is a lot of room for growing pains as well that can lead too a bad reputation. It is a slippery and long slope.

Man spends six months and $1500 making sandwich from scratch.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/17/9344597/man-spent-six-months-1500-making-sandwich-from-scratch

Does anyone think it was the best sandwich ever or worth the effort?

In house just sounds good though doesn't it... I'm an if u can't do it better, then why bother person. Well, unless Swatch Group forces you to... Lol. If you have the cash, you can buy the company doing it best, put your name over theres' and call it in house. Swatch again. Just think swatch was the cheapie fun plastic Quartz watch of the eighties, and now they rule the watch world. They sold millions!!!! Cash was/is the great equalizer that allowed them to purchase all those precious brands, and the game is about power and more cash coming to your brand or brands.
Well Swatch was not quite the little company that made plastic watches. It was the unified consortium of SSIH and ASUAG, that is the parent company for Omega and Tissot and the worlds largest manufacturer of movements and parts.

It was a brilliant idea to compete with the Asian market to create affordable Swiss watches ( swatches) and in essence they saved the Swiss industry. Given that SSIH had been taken over by the banks after bankruptcy and the state of the industry at large one can really admire their vision and execution.
Edited:
 
Undersköterskan
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thatonewatchdude thatonewatchdude
Rolex gets its overcoils from Breguet and shock protectors from KIF. "In house" is used entirely out of context.

It's a Breguet overcoil - it's not made by Breguet (their movements are made by Lemania by the way).
 
Modest_Proposal
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Not to beat a dead horse - but Nomos is pretty close to what might be called completely "in-house" and more.

With their new automatic movement, they now make their cases, dials and movements (including hairspring, escape wheel, pallet fork and balance wheel)...

Their older alpha movement was also inhouse (except for the escapement) - though its gear train was exactly like the generic movement it replaced.
 
P
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Bremont claimed the BWC/01 to be in house. It later emerged it was based around a La Joux-Perrent movement including its mechanisms and train movement LOL, it is all based around marketing the only other manufacturers the are truly in house are people like Seiko even with their cheaper movements. It is all to do with economies of scale that are in havour of larger mass production manufacturers. So this is coming back to comments from other members made in this post and a previous one of mine months ago.

The marketing giggery pokery of these companies is very clever. They sure know how to pay mind games with consumers.
 
J
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There's being too worried about "in-house," which is one thing. But, if these companies are slapping ETA movements into cases they've outsourced, along with the dials and hands - they're just a watch ASSEMBLER at that point. That bothers me.

Rolex and Seiko's vertical integration and ability to manufacture pretty much everything in-house is definitely a plus to me, and I don't particularly care if anyone thinks that's marketing.
 
abrod520
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J jaymyms
There's being too worried about "in-house," which is one thing. But, if these companies are slapping ETA movements into cases they've outsourced, along with the dials and hands - they're just a watch ASSEMBLER at that point. That bothers me.

I'm sure this has been pointed out to you before, but nearly every single vintage watch model was "assembled" from parts outsourced from specialist suppliers. Valjoux movements, Singer dials, Piquerez, Schmitz, or HF / CB cases etc. The movement towards "in-house" manufacturing of all parts is actually a very recent phenomenon.
 
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jaymyms
There's being too worried about "in-house," which is one thing. But, if these companies are slapping ETA movements into cases they've outsourced, along with the dials and hands - they're just a watch ASSEMBLER at that point. That bothers me.

Rolex and Seiko's vertical integration and ability to manufacture pretty much everything in-house is definitely a plus to me, and I don't particularly care if anyone thinks that's marketing.

Full credit to Seiko it is more down to economies of scale for their in house work. Rolex purchased Agler (think that is correct spelling) they did not do the work themselves. It is only in the last 15 years or so they started to develop on new tech in their own right, but is all them now. That is the point if it took Rolex so long how can other companies do it so quick.
 
J
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abrod520 abrod520
I'm sure this has been pointed out to you before, but nearly every single vintage watch model was "assembled" from parts outsourced from specialist suppliers. Valjoux movements, Singer dials, Piquerez, Schmitz, or HF / CB cases etc. The movement towards "in-house" manufacturing of all parts is actually a very recent phenomenon.

I'm well aware of that, but modern and vintage are very different in my eyes.
 
LawBrk
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The "in-house" phenomena does not catch me, and as @abrod520 pointed out, vintage pieces are not very "in-house". With modern pieces I see how its more desirable to have a piece made completely by the designer to their exact specifications, but with the cost of tooling and automated fabrication components these days I'm not surprised to see the money being pushed to the Marketing Dept. instead of the factory floor.
 
STANDY
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Don't forget the old make one model in house trick.....
 
J
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P PatrickJ
Full credit to Seiko it is more down to economies of scale for their in house work. Rolex purchased Agler (think that is correct spelling) they did not do the work themselves. It is only in the last 15 years or so they started to develop on new tech in their own right, but is all them now. That is the point if it took Rolex so long how can other companies do it so quick.

And just look at the increase in quality that came out of Rolex since going in-house. It's not the other way around. I mean, modern Rolex isn't for everyone, and full respect to vintage enthusiasts, but literally every aspect of their watches have improved since things have become more vertical.
 
abrod520
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J jaymyms
I'm well aware of that, but modern and vintage are very different in my eyes.

Fair enough, and I can't say I disagree. But it's really more marketing hype than anything I think, unless there's a provable advantage to the in-house movement.

My issue these days is, if it's not in-house, the price better be right. The Tudor Black Bay comes to mind....🥰 I actually think the ETA movement in that is a selling point (they're super easy to service and very reliable) but if you take an off-the-shelf movement and try to charge a premium, like that TAG Carrera vintage-looking model last year with the Sellita movement... 🤮
 
Archer
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J jaymyms
But, if these companies are slapping ETA movements into cases they've outsourced, along with the dials and hands - they're just a watch ASSEMBLER at that point. That bothers me.

Can I ask why it bothers you? Do you not think there is a place in the watch world for assembleurs, which by the way is the proper term for a company that does this (rather than a manufacture)?

If people want to buy into the perceived advantage that being "in-house" provides (again can't be stated enough that this a term that has no official definition, but is thrown around like it means something very specific) then that's fine with me. But why should brands that don't do this "bother you" so much?

I think someone mentioned Panerai in this thread...looking at the problems they have had with several of their manufacture movements, I would take the ETA that was "slapped in the case" any day thanks.

Cheers, Al
 
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