Tresor with customised enamel 'Saudi' dial

Peemacgee · Oct 26, 2023

As some of you might know, I've spent quite a bit of time in Arabia and when this watch was posted for auction next month I sent a link to a friend out there - just for interest.
However, they came back and said that they might be interested in bidding on it but did I think it was correct?

Tresors aren't on my normal paper round, especially with customised dials, so I thought I would reach out to the good folks here for comment.

The watch is a YG 18k OT2642 Tresor, cal 283, serial 12,464,xxx
From research, whilst initially with a cal 263, later 2624s can come with a cal 283
- so that all checks out
There is an EOA from June 2023 (whatever that is worth nowadays) and the watch dates to 1952
The case has seen some polishing but looks reasonable.

So far, so good.
The elephant in the room is of course the enamel dial.
It depicts 'Arabia', specifically Saudi Arabia, with crossed swords and instead of a palm tree, it has an image of a 'religious building' and an Arabic inscription noting 'Mecca'.

Whilst there are later 'Aramco' enamel dialled Omegas, they aren't gold or Tresors and unlike them the Tresor dial has no Omega logo and is significantly older than the 'Omega Aramco dialled' watches, so the assumption is that it is an 'after market' custom addition.

There are however a number of Universal Geneve watches with 'Arabia' enamelled dials from very much the same era as the Tresor, some marked UG others are 'naked'.

The dial is of reasonable quality and very stylised in its depiction of Arabia, not up to the quality of the Omega enamel dials but probably comparable to some of the UG dials.

The EOA says delivered to Switzerland - is it possible that Omega released a watch to a local enamel-dial producer at the request of a valued customer? (e.g. one used by UG?)

Has anyone seen anything similar or know of custom dial makers that Omega used?

Any comments or indeed scepticisms will be very much appreciated

The Tresor up for auction next month - estimate £7,000-£9,000 (which means the reserve is probably £7,000)

Later Omega Aramco (60s) dial (courtesy of OF sales and @baoquang )

Naked UG dials - very similar era to the Tresor

Signed UG (Aramco?) dial - again similar era to the Tresor - sold at Antiquorum 2011

Bernhard J · Oct 26, 2023

Recently more and more of these "customized" dials with "arabic" motives, also with person portraits, e.g. Sheik of Jemen, seem to come up. I suppose that at least some are produced to deceive, similar to a number of suddenly emerging pocket watches from Bulgaria, all with (added) symbols of zarist Russia and claiming to be of particular value.

But a few may just as well be authentic, but I personally do not have the knowledge to distinguish these from well made "aftermarket" dials by eastern European sellers.

Peemacgee · Oct 26, 2023

Bernhard J
Recently more and more of these "customized" dials with "arabic" motives, also with person portraits, e.g. Sheik of Jemen, seem to come up. I suppose that at least some are produced to deceive, similar to a number of suddenly emerging pocket watches from Bulgaria, all with (added) symbols of zarist Russia and claiming to be of particular value.

But a few may just as well be authentic, but I personally do not have the knowledge to distinguish these from well made "aftermarket" dials by eastern European sellers.

Thanks for the response anyway.

The difficulty is that watches of the 50s and 60s are indeed 'coming out' as the original owners inheritors are now shuffling off their mortal coils - and we know that the recently rich (then) Arabic rulers were indeed handing out bespoke tokens of their gratitude.
The watches out of Bulgaria with dubious dials (or previously Ukraine) aren't usually in 18k gold and there are lots of top of the range precious-metal Constellations with various images of Arabic Sheiks and Emirs on them that are quite correct.

The. naked dial on an Omega is almost certainly 'aftermarket' but the main question is, in this case, was it contemporaneous with the delivery of the Tresor as with the UPs I posted above?

nitediver · Oct 26, 2023

Lovely piece. I never though i'd see the same dial again. A friend once showed me these pictures from a gentleman in Algeria if memory serves.
I'm not an expert on these Omega Tresor by any means but since the dial looks exactly the same, I think it may be legit. The inscription at the bottom is "Makkah Al-Mukarramah" which is the arabic name of Mecca.

Sorry about the quality of the pictures, they were sent to me many years ago as is. It's a miracle that I still have them! No movement or case back shot unfortunately.

Stefan.

Peemacgee · Oct 27, 2023

Many thanks for the response Stefan.

I think this could be the same watch.

what is very useful is that, on your pics, there appears to be some colour missing between 11 and 12 which is commensurate with ‘staining’ at the same place on the auction watch.
So, it looks as though the dial has been touched up at some point.

Something to take into account when advising my friend on whether he should bid or not.

Peemacgee · Oct 27, 2023

I'm going to give this thread a gentle bump, with some tags to see if any of the 'elders' that have a better handle on mid 20th century watches might like to offer any opinions.
@dsio @Tony C. @OMTOM @gatorcpa @michael e @mondodec @hoipolloi @Tire-comedon (no offence intended if I've missed anyone -all comments, good or bad, are welcomed)

kaplan · Oct 27, 2023

One of my most prized watches has the signature of the UAE Founder Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan - however the delivery location is Bahrain. I assume since Isa bin Salman Al Khalifa really loved gifting Omega's, it could've been his gift to Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan

The dealer I bought it from showed me how long he chased this watch and who he got it from, his theory was that this was one of the watches Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan gifted to esteemed visitors, as it was customary to give gifts to guests - but from the delivery I think my theory is likely as well

Now comes where this story could relate to this watch and the EOA - it was during the time where the museum was busy faking watches rather than do any research or just relay what's in their archives, so such a special watch was only provided a generic EOA - I believe this was the reason why I was able to buy it for such an affordable price, it's still 2x the price of what I paid for any other watch, but still, if a watch had Atatürk's signature for example, It'd definitely be 100x the value, I found it interesting that no one from the region bought it in the week that it stayed in the market. I think it's because they questioned the authenticity and didn't have enough time to verify, whereas I immediately recognized the red font and had no doubt

So June 2023 ... there could've been an epic historic story in there but they would've just relay the delivery location and move on ...

Peemacgee · Oct 27, 2023

kaplan
One of my most prized watches has the signature of the UAE Founder Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan - however the delivery location is Bahrain. I assume since Isa bin Salman Al Khalifa really loved gifting Omega's, it could've been his gift to Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan.

The signed / imaged watches were generally gifts to the 'deserving'.
Depending on the age of the watch, it's possible that there was no Omega dealer in the UAE as it was only founded (as UAE) in 1971.
IIRC Bahrain had a much longer developed oil & gas industry, so it's possible that Omega had an outlet there in the 60s.

nitediver · Oct 27, 2023

Peemacgee
Many thanks for the response Stefan.

I think this could be the same watch.

what is very useful is that, on your pics, there appears to be some colour missing between 11 and 12 which is commensurate with ‘staining’ at the same place on the auction watch.
So, it looks as though the dial has been touched up at some point.

Something to take into account when advising my friend on whether he should bid or not.

Your observation is spot on! It could be the same watch indeed.

Verdi · Oct 28, 2023

Oman was the main location for watch delivery in the region. UAE had no Omega dealer in ‘71.The other nations around Oman were not very well established at that time in the Gulf.

When UAE was established in ‘71, both royal families from Dubai and Abu Dhabi commissioned many watches from Rolex. They were give to Army officials and as gifts to other state officials. The tradition went on in the the early 80s.

Saudi Arabia and Oman had the same tradition. I have seen many Rolex and UG stamped dials….but not so many Omega, let alone one with enamel dial (and not signed).
My 2 cents is that the dial in the watch you are asking about does not originate from Omega. The quality is not there.
Having said that…UG also did not make enamel dials, they would order them when they had these special orders. However, the UG examples look better and they are signed.

Btw, I heard that these watches were usually commissioned by watch dealers from London at the request at their clients.

OMTOM · Oct 28, 2023

Peemacgee
I'm going to give this thread a gentle bump, with some tags to see if any of the 'elders' that have a better handle on mid 20th century watches might like to offer any opinions.
@dsio @Tony C. @OMTOM @gatorcpa @michael e @mondodec @hoipolloi @Tire-comedon (no offence intended if I've missed anyone -all comments, good or bad, are welcomed)

Sorry but these are too modern for me!
I think you should include include @mac_omega in your list of possible helpers - surely THE specialist in anything getting near to the 30mm.
I would also recommend AJTT pages 498 and 713/4 for an introduction. Tom

Peemacgee · Oct 28, 2023

OMTOM
Sorry but these are too modern for me!
I think you should include include @mac_omega in your list of possible helpers - surely THE specialist in anything getting near to the 30mm.
I would also recommend AJTT pages 498 and 713/4 for an introduction. Tom

Thanks for this.
I was going to include @mac_omega but the underscore foxed me.
I’ll also have a look in the AJTT section you mention.

Peemacgee · Oct 28, 2023

Verdi
My 2 cents is that the dial in the watch you are asking about does not originate from Omega. The quality is not there.
Having said that…UG also did not make enamel dials, they would order them when they had these special orders. However, the UG examples look better and they are signed.

Btw, I heard that these watches were usually commissioned by watch dealers from London at the request at their clients.

Thank you for the comments @Verdi.

I also think that it is a non-omega dial - it would be of higher quality and have the Omega symbol.
The quality is not too dissimilar to the UG watches and not all of them were signed (as illustrated above)

According to the EOA the watch was delivered to Switzerland - so I wondered if someone there produced bespoke aftermarket dials for clients of Swiss watch makers.

Verdi
Oman was the main location for watch delivery in the region. UAE had no Omega dealer in ‘71.The other nations around Oman were not very well established at that time in the Gulf.

When UAE was established in ‘71, both royal families from Dubai and Abu Dhabi commissioned many watches from Rolex. They were give to Army officials and as gifts to other state officials. The tradition went on in the the early 80s.

Whilst Oman's oil industry (as we know it) was developed by the future BP in the 60s, I believe that Bahrain was the first Gulf nation to commercially produce oil, some decades ahead of other Gulf nations
So, given that @kaplan's watch was delivered to Bahrain, in the 60s, the UAE Sheikhs may have got their Rolexes from Oman and their Omegas from Bahrain.

kaplan · Oct 28, 2023

I went back and reviewed things after the knowledge of this thread, the delivery date for my watch is 1967 - one year after he came into absolute power and 4 years before UAE - so indeed it does make some sense

However let’s not forget the North Korea delivery locations, all their watches were delivered to NK even the ones gifted to foreign leaders/officials, so having/not-having an AD doesn’t deterministically affect delivery

Peemacgee · Oct 28, 2023

I guess when you are an ‘absolute ruler’, with money, you don’t need an AD!

Peemacgee · Oct 29, 2023

OMTOM
Sorry but these are too modern for me!
I think you should include include @mac_omega in your list of possible helpers - surely THE specialist in anything getting near to the 30mm.
I would also recommend AJTT pages 498 and 713/4 for an introduction. Tom

Have had a chance to look at my AJTT.
Pages 713/4/5 are great to reference thank you.

Omega did produce some very short runs of bespoke and obscure enamel dials - like coats of arms - but also maps of countries such as Brazil and Palestine.

However, they are all of very high quality and all have the Omega symbol.
So, I'm more than ever convinced that the 'Arabia' or 'Saudi' dial at auction is an after market addition and may be a one off.

A quick snap of Omega enamel dials, from AJTT, for those that are interested.

kaplan · Oct 29, 2023

Phew, what a collection they’d make … but all defective by your perception @Peemacgee 😀

Peemacgee · Oct 29, 2023

kaplan
Phew, what a collection they’d make … but all defective by your perception @Peemacgee 😀

I don't see any spider dials......😉

I can see someone with very, very, deep pockets (and an Omega obsession) making it a life's ambition to collect as many examples of these enamel dials as possible.
(they are all very beautiful)

cristos71 · Oct 29, 2023

I saw a couple of enamel dials at the Omega Museum and they were very impressive indeed.

Peemacgee · Oct 29, 2023

cristos71
I saw a couple of enamel dials at the Omega Museum and they were very impressive indeed.

Thanks @cristos71

Those look like some of the ones from AJTT - pretty wonderful.

Tresor with customised enamel 'Saudi' dial

Peemacgee

Bernhard J

Peemacgee

nitediver

Peemacgee

Peemacgee

kaplan

Peemacgee

nitediver

Verdi

OMTOM

Peemacgee

Peemacgee

kaplan

Peemacgee

Peemacgee

kaplan

Peemacgee

cristos71

Peemacgee

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