- Posts
- 2,520
- Likes
- 17,831
Too many questions about watch servicing/maintenance
- Posts
- 3,582
- Likes
- 8,168
UncleBuck
··understands the decision making hierarchyI have a vintage watch in for service that has been through more than a lot.
It is fond to me and I want to continue wearing it as my daily companion.
The service, most likely, will be more than the monetary value of the watch.
What is best?
What is best for this 68 yr. old fart half-ass collector?
Do I wait for something to break and then fix it or do I watch things closely and try to head off problems?
Do you get your teeth cleaned or wait for cavities?
I think the answer lies in the nearness and dearness of the object in question.
If it's a commodity, analyze your return on investment and maximize your expenditures.
But if it's love, guard it's future, protect it's happiness and promote it's well-being without the influence of the profit/loss statement.
I shall clean my teeth and have trust/respect for my Dentist/ Watchmaker.
It is fond to me and I want to continue wearing it as my daily companion.
The service, most likely, will be more than the monetary value of the watch.
What is best?
What is best for this 68 yr. old fart half-ass collector?
Do I wait for something to break and then fix it or do I watch things closely and try to head off problems?
Do you get your teeth cleaned or wait for cavities?
I think the answer lies in the nearness and dearness of the object in question.
If it's a commodity, analyze your return on investment and maximize your expenditures.
But if it's love, guard it's future, protect it's happiness and promote it's well-being without the influence of the profit/loss statement.
I shall clean my teeth and have trust/respect for my Dentist/ Watchmaker.
- Posts
- 2,675
- Likes
- 7,487
gostang9
·It’s unfortunate that threads regarding service quickly turn into right vs wrong and who’s on what side.
I thought the OP in this thread asked some simple questions clearly intended to understand what other people do personally. He recognized there was no one perfect golden standard, he expected diversity in responses and so put it out as a bit of a poll. He seems quite capable of making up his own mind, he just wants our individual methods so he has a full understanding of his options. No need to hammer out an official OF consensus... 😉
I thought the OP in this thread asked some simple questions clearly intended to understand what other people do personally. He recognized there was no one perfect golden standard, he expected diversity in responses and so put it out as a bit of a poll. He seems quite capable of making up his own mind, he just wants our individual methods so he has a full understanding of his options. No need to hammer out an official OF consensus... 😉
- Posts
- 2,520
- Likes
- 17,831
airansun
·I have a vintage watch in for service that has been through more than a lot.
It is fond to me and I want to continue wearing it as my daily companion.
The service, most likely, will be more than the monetary value of the watch.
What is best?
What is best for this 68 yr. old fart half-ass collector?
Do I wait for something to break and then fix it or do I watch things closely and try to head off problems?
Do you get your teeth cleaned or wait for cavities?
I think the answer lies in the nearness and dearness of the object in question.
If it's a commodity, analyze your return on investment and maximize your expenditures.
But if it's love, guard it's future, protect it's happiness and promote it's well-being without the influence of the profit/loss statement.
I shall clean my teeth and have trust/respect for my Dentist/ Watchmaker.
Damn, @UncleBuck ! I think you nailed it. 👍
- Posts
- 23,379
- Likes
- 52,006
- Posts
- 8,235
- Likes
- 19,417
alam
·..What is best?
What is best for this 68 yr. old fart half-ass collector?
Do I wait for something to break and then fix it or do I watch things closely and try to head off problems?
Do you get your teeth cleaned or wait for cavities?
Now, I suspect 68 y/o dentures should follow the same service/preventive maintenance protocol that's recommended for vintage watches 😁
- Posts
- 16,307
- Likes
- 44,981
JwRosenthal
·This is very true, and it's always difficult to factor this risk into the equation. If I have a valuable barn-find watch that is working properly, I'm a bit afraid to have it serviced.
- Posts
- 23,379
- Likes
- 52,006
Dan S
·There is always risk- my watchmaker has had my Speedy and GMT apart (the GMT a couple times for a reoccurring problem), and there has never been a mishap. That said, he is human and a sneeze at an inopportune time could lead to damage...same goes with a surgeon. We trust in them to not nick an artery when they are elbow deep...if the work needs to be done it needs to be done.
Agreed, but we are also talking about watches that are apparently running satisfactorily at the moment. I fully understand the long-term wear and tear associated with using a watch that is due for a service, but I have also experienced acute damage that occurs from disassembling or reassembling watches (loss of lume, etc.).
- Posts
- 16,307
- Likes
- 44,981
JwRosenthal
·There is always risk- my watchmaker has had my Speedy and GMT apart (the GMT a couple times for a reoccurring problem), and there has never been a mishap. That said, he is human and a sneeze at an inopportune time could lead to damage...same goes with a surgeon. We trust in them to not nick an artery when they are elbow deep...if the work needs to be done it needs to be done. Just find someone you trust and have build a relationship.
- Posts
- 1,698
- Likes
- 1,653
kkt
·The original poster asked what we are doing. I'm new to nice watches, and I have yet to own one long enough to need service twice. But I plan on servicing them every five years. The nice watches I have are vintage, so who knows how long replacement parts will be available. If service history is unknown when I buy them, I have them serviced at once. Also watches I wear often, I have pressure tested annually. My watchmaker is good but not cheap, and the watches of mine that he services are the Omega and Rolex - he doesn't service watches for which he has no parts account. Fortunately I have had enough serviced there that they are happy to do pressure checks and replacement gaskets for free.
The not-nice watches, quartz, I take to a cheaper watchmaker when they need their batteries changed and they look at the condition.
The not-nice watches, quartz, I take to a cheaper watchmaker when they need their batteries changed and they look at the condition.
- Posts
- 31
- Likes
- 11
mcnuonuo
·This is a sure condition of never being happy in life.
Take the most beautiful woman in the world and look close enough you will find flaws.
I never intend to look that close.
You could take a brand new watch and zoom in as you did with those pictures and find flaws, but if they don't affect function, who cares?
There are things that matter, and things that don't. Most don't, even if they're not perfect.
- Posts
- 1,071
- Likes
- 2,165
jsducote
·There are standards that watch companies like Omega put out for when wear is acceptable or not.
My most recent purchase was a recent (not new, not vintage) model Tag Heuer. The chrono hand does not reset exactly to zero, which suggests it needs to be seen, but it keeps good time, suggesting that doing it soon isn't critical.
- Posts
- 10,644
- Likes
- 51,850
Walrus
·I’ve never had a watch maker tell me it’s running fine leave it alone. If I ask for a service they just do it. I do wonder if mechanical watches require less regular service than automatic watches. Like many here as soon as a watch comes in the mail or I pick it up at a second hand shop it gets a service. The words yes it’s been serviced don’t mean much without proof.
If I may ask are watches with subdials more expensive to get serviced than one with only a day date. I’m just curious as I may be adding one with subdials soon.
If I may ask are watches with subdials more expensive to get serviced than one with only a day date. I’m just curious as I may be adding one with subdials soon.
- Posts
- 29,216
- Likes
- 75,497
Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerQuestion - Is there any way for the layperson to identify wear OTHER than a decline in timekeeping?
My most recent purchase was a recent (not new, not vintage) model Tag Heuer. The chrono hand does not reset exactly to zero, which suggests it needs to be seen, but it keeps good time, suggesting that doing it soon isn't critical.
In your specific example, a chronograph hand not resetting isn't necessarily an indication of a movement problem - it could be that the hand wasn't set on centered in the first place, or the hand is loose on the post, or the rivet between the tube and flat parts of the hand is loose.
As discussed, timekeeping can tell you when there's a problem, but good timekeeping doesn't mean there isn't a problem. I show an example in this thread:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/if-...-does-that-mean-it-doesnt-need-service.20475/
Now without using any equipment as I did in that thread, such as a timing machine, or without opening up the watch and looking inside under a microscope, there's really no certain way to know the condition of the movement. But if there is one thing I would base it on in terms of watch performance, it would be how long the watch runs. It's by no means a sure fire method, but generally speaking when a watch is getting to a point where it needs servicing, the watch will stop sooner than it would when it's new or freshly serviced. So if the watch is supposed to run for 48 hours, and it doesn't, then that can be a reasonably reliable (if not perfect) indicator that you should at least get it checked.
Cheers, Al
- Posts
- 29,216
- Likes
- 75,497
Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI’ve never had a watch maker tell me it’s running fine leave it alone. If I ask for a service they just do it. I do wonder if mechanical watches require less regular service than automatic watches. Like many here as soon as a watch comes in the mail or I pick it up at a second hand shop it gets a service. The words yes it’s been serviced don’t mean much without proof.
If I may ask are watches with subdials more expensive to get serviced than one with only a day date. I’m just curious as I may be adding one with subdials soon.
It would depend on how the watch is used. If you are an extremely active person wearing an automatic watch, it's possible that the parts for this could be working harder than the rest of the watch. Most automatics are designed in a way that normal everyday movements will be more than enough to keep the watch fully wound, so if your movements are in excess of that, the automatic will be winding the mainspring even more than is required. This could theoretically lead to the auto mechanism wearing at a different rate than the rest of the watch, but you would have to be very active for this to be relevant I would think.
If by a "watch with sub-dials" you mean a chronograph, then yes they are typically more to service as they take more time.
Your post brings up the topic that not all parts inside a watch are directly related to timekeeping - this is one reason why using timekeeping won't always tell you everything. The reversing wheels (or equivalent) in an automatic watch are some of the hardest working parts you will find in a watch. The wear on these can be severe...
Cal. 1120 reversing wheel:
These are two reversing wheels from ETA 7750's - new on the left, worn one (the most worn I've ever seen one of these) on the right:
Not saying these watches didn't have problems, but just illustrating that these are very hard working parts. The Theory of Horology textbook (used in most watchmaking schools) states that these can change direction up to 10 million times per year inside a watch.
This is a worn post on the automatic bridge for a Cal. 1120:
And there are other areas that don't affect timekeeping that can wear, so for example here is an hour hammer from a Cal. 861, and it's clearly worn on the surface that contacts the cam when resetting the chronograph:
It wasn't causing issues when the watch came in, but there's no way to know how long that would be the case. I've had these get so worn that the hour recorder reset requires a lot of force, and then this can cause other problems like distortion of the hole in the main plate where the hour recording wheel sits.
This is a "date unlocking yoke" for an ETA 7750 that has been modified to have an instantaneous date change, and the red arrow points to the surface that does all the work:
The surface was worn pretty badly, as the 9104 (HP1300) lubricant that had been placed there was long gone:
Again, the date would still change, but given the amount of wear here, I replaced the part because I wasn't at all confident it would last another 5+ years until the next service.
Cheers, Al
- Posts
- 3,780
- Likes
- 20,197
- Posts
- 1,530
- Likes
- 3,592
Stufflers Mom
·As discussed, timekeeping can tell you when there's a problem, but good timekeeping doesn't mean there isn't a problem. I show an example in this thread:
Cheers, Al
But what is this "problem"? Omega charge the same price to service the watch, small problem or large problem, the cost is the same, so no problem at all.
- Posts
- 10,644
- Likes
- 51,850
Walrus
·It would depend on how the watch is used. If you are an extremely active person wearing an automatic watch, it's possible that the parts for this could be working harder than the rest of the watch. Most automatics are designed in a way that normal everyday movements will be more than enough to keep the watch fully wound, so if your movements are in excess of that, the automatic will be winding the mainspring even more than is required. This could theoretically lead to the auto mechanism wearing at a different rate than the rest of the watch, but you would have to be very active for this to be relevant I would think.
If by a "watch with sub-dials" you mean a chronograph, then yes they are typically more to service as they take more time.
Your post brings up the topic that not all parts inside a watch are directly related to timekeeping - this is one reason why using timekeeping won't always tell you everything. The reversing wheels (or equivalent) in an automatic watch are some of the hardest working parts you will find in a watch. The wear on these can be severe...
Cal. 1120 reversing wheel:
These are two reversing wheels from ETA 7750's - new on the left, worn one (the most worn I've ever seen one of these) on the right:
Not saying these watches didn't have problems, but just illustrating that these are very hard working parts. The Theory of Horology textbook (used in most watchmaking schools) states that these can change direction up to 10 million times per year inside a watch.
This is a worn post on the automatic bridge for a Cal. 1120:
And there are other areas that don't affect timekeeping that can wear, so for example here is an hour hammer from a Cal. 861, and it's clearly worn on the surface that contacts the cam when resetting the chronograph:
It wasn't causing issues when the watch came in, but there's no way to know how long that would be the case. I've had these get so worn that the hour recorder reset requires a lot of force, and then this can cause other problems like distortion of the hole in the main plate where the hour recording wheel sits.
This is a "date unlocking yoke" for an ETA 7750 that has been modified to have an instantaneous date change, and the red arrow points to the surface that does all the work:
The surface was worn pretty badly, as the 9104 (HP1300) lubricant that had been placed there was long gone:
Again, the date would still change, but given the amount of wear here, I replaced the part because I wasn't at all confident it would last another 5+ years until the next service.
Cheers, Al
- Posts
- 29,216
- Likes
- 75,497
Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerBut what is this "problem"? Omega charge the same price to service the watch, small problem or large problem, the cost is the same, so no problem at all.
In a modern watch, letting it run until it stops or fails, and sending it to the brand service center may very well be the cheapest course of action.
But that's not always the case, in particular with vintage watches where the parts are expensive and difficult to find.
- Posts
- 1,530
- Likes
- 3,592
Stufflers Mom
·In a modern watch, letting it run until it stops or fails, and sending it to the brand service center may very well be the cheapest course of action.
But that's not always the case, in particular with vintage watches where the parts are expensive and difficult to find.
I don't have or intend to have any vintage watches, so I will not experience the "problem" you mentioned.
