Too many questions about watch servicing/maintenance

Posts
29,214
Likes
75,491
Yeah, if one saw an ad for a ‘63 Corvette that read “ All original, original battery, belts brakes, fluids, oil filter, tires- factory original and unmolested with great patina” I think a sane person would bring a trailer and not jump start it and drive it home.

C'mon now...don't bring common sense to this argument! 😉
 
Posts
29,214
Likes
75,491
BUT, running fine means running fine. If it stops, I'll fix it.

Indeed, that's what it means. What it certainly doesn't always mean is that it's in good condition inside, that oils aren't dried up of failing, and that parts are not wearing...
 
Posts
1,451
Likes
19,173
I don't do all that many "maintenance" services

I've gotten the impression that not many watchmakers do. When I brought a recently purchased 114270 Explorer with no service history (but was running just fine) into the Rolex service center for routine servicing, the representative was a bit incredulous that I was bringing it "just because." I also just bought a new old stock 2201.50 Planet Ocean and brought it the nearest Omega factory trained watchmaker for a service (as I had read your numerous posts about oil drying up and such). He took a look at movement, pressure checked it, and then sent me on my way saying there was no need to service the watch unless it was running funny.
 
Posts
16,307
Likes
44,981
I've gotten the impression that not many watchmakers do. When I brought a recently purchased 114270 Explorer with no service history (but was running just fine) into the Rolex service center for routine servicing, the representative was a bit incredulous that I was bringing it "just because." I also just bought a new old stock 2201.50 Planet Ocean and brought it the nearest Omega factory trained watchmaker for a service (as I had read your numerous posts about oil drying up and such). He took a look at movement, pressure checked it, and then sent me on my way saying there was no need to service the watch unless it was running funny.
This is the same responses I have gotten- if there’s nothing wrong with it, why do you want it serviced?
But I side with Archer on this since he has shown photographic proof- that 7 year old Sinn- ouch!
 
Posts
3,040
Likes
14,175
Indeed, that's what it means. What it certainly doesn't always mean is that it's in good condition inside, that oils aren't dried up of failing, and that parts are not wearing...

Well look, it's not just me... Two watchmakers I know well in my area tell me the same...one is a third gen watchmaker. Both say don't bother unless it stops running well. I see both sides but when you have over 60 vintage watches, it's just not economical.
 
Posts
390
Likes
214
I’ve grown to believe “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”.
 
Posts
29,214
Likes
75,491
Well look, it's not just me... Two watchmakers I know well in my area tell me the same...one is a third gen watchmaker. Both say don't bother unless it stops running well. I see both sides but when you have over 60 vintage watches, it's just not economical.

Again to be clear, I don’t care how you service your watches. How you choose to handle your watches is irrelevant to the facts.

I have seen far too many watches that owners report as “running fine” that are not in good shape inside, that It’s clear that “running fine” is not a guarantee of anything with regards to movement condition. This is the point I’m making, which again has nothing to do with how you choose to do things.
 
Posts
1,530
Likes
3,592
This is the same responses I have gotten- if there’s nothing wrong with it, why do you want it serviced?
But I side with Archer on this since he has shown photographic proof- that 7 year old Sinn- ouch!

Of course you are free to believe what you like, but we have no background info. on the Sinn, or how it came to be in such poor condition. For all we know it may have sat with the caseback off for two years in a poor environment.
 
Posts
29,214
Likes
75,491
Of course you are free to believe what you like, but we have no background info. on the Sinn, or how it came to be in such poor condition. For all we know it may have sat with the caseback off for two years in a poor environment.

Well if it did, that wouldn’t cause the wear on the pivots...🙄
 
Posts
1,530
Likes
3,592
Well if it did, that wouldn’t cause the wear on the pivots...🙄

Silly me, and I thought your project fear advert was about oils drying up.
 
Posts
29,214
Likes
75,491
Silly me, and I thought your project fear advert was about oils drying up.

Yes, silly you indeed.
 
Posts
29,214
Likes
75,491
But not silly enough to fall for a shoddy sales pitch.

Feel free to believe whatever you wish...
 
Posts
2,520
Likes
17,831
A basic course in mechanical engineering would do some here some good.

@Archer is right. Vintage pieces deserve/need babying that modern ones do not.

Everything vintage gets serviced after it joins the family. Anything vintage that I wear with any frequency will be serviced on schedule. Anything put away for more than six years will be serviced before regularly worn. What I do.

It’s true, I’m embarrassed to admit I’ve never added up all the money I’ve spent with watchmakers or how much will be required to service them all again. It’s a lot of money.

But, part of the way I respect these miraculous, compact precision instruments is to keep them repaired and not unduly abuse them by running them when it damages them.

Every time @Archer posts any of those photos, it always makes me ill. 🤮
Edited:
 
Posts
212
Likes
204
I just had my Submariner LV serviced after 5 years. Why? I dive with it. After 5 years I think it's a real good idea to get the seals replaced, and while Rolex insisted on a full service I have zero problems with that. I have other Rolex and Tudor divers that I use and they, too, will go in after 5 years. My other watches (Explorer, Explorer II, DateJust, Air-King 5500 I'll wait til six or seven years as long as they're keeping good time. Servicing by Rolex is expensive, but most of my watches have increased in value (in some cases dramatically) so I don't really worry about the cost. A qualified watchmaker and genuine parts are worth it anyway.

The subject of watch servicing is an interesting one to watch on forums. It tends to bring out deeply held beliefs that sometimes defy logic, almost like a religion. For me personally, I don't care if other people service their watches or not. I was personally brought up with the idea that when you bought something, you took care of it, but that way of thinking has gone by the wayside to a great extent in today's throw away society. Also as an engineer, I was heavily involved in preventative maintenance programs, so that sort of mindset comes naturally to me.

From a professional point of view, I don't do all that many "maintenance" services, as most of the watches that come to me have some sort of problem. I'm certainly not trying to change people's minds, because there will always be the 10%-ers that won't change their beliefs no matter what. However there is one main thing people need to keep in mind when it comes to servicing...

There is no one size fits all answer that makes sense in every situation.

Different situations require different approaches to servicing. If you the type of person who primarily cares about costs, and you have a modern watch that you will be sending to the brand service center, then from an economic standpoint letting it run until it stops working could very well be the most economic option. It would depend on the brand, what they charge, how many parts they include in their base service pricing, etc.

For a vintage watch where the parts are discontinued, hard to find, and expensive, you are very often better off taking the steps needed to keep the parts that are inside the watch in good shape, so servicing before the oils dry up and the parts wear will reduce the service costs and delays looking for parts going forward.

How long a watch can go between servicing is not an easy question to answer. It depends on how the watch is used, so if it is worn daily as the only watch you own, it will likely need servicing more frequently than a watch that is worn in rotation with a dozen others than only gets worn a few weeks per year.

I have a Sinn 556 with an ETA 2824-2 movement in it in my shop right now. The watch was bought new 7 years ago and worn daily - not owned by a collector. On inspection I see oils that are dried up, and some that have failed and there are obvious signs of wear products in the jewels. Here are some photos to illustrate this - first the balance jewel was dry:



Here is the intermediate wheel jewel - note that the oil has turned brown, and there are products of wear in the oil that's left:



Same here in the third wheel jewel:



The oil in the seconds wheel jewel is completely dry, and the wear products here is in the form of a powder, rather than an oily sludge:



The escape wheel jewel has some minor signs of wear:



So let's look at the parts that are riding in those jewels - first the intermediate wheel - pivots worn on both ends:





Now the third wheel - one end not so bad:



The other lots of wear on the pivot - these pivots should be cylindrical:



How about that seconds wheel - I would say this one is well worn:



Escape wheel - there is some wear right up against the shoulder:



In addition to this both reversing wheels required replacing, plus the ratchet wheel driving wheel.

Now none of these parts are particularly expensive. Most train wheels for this movement are maybe $15 each, with the escape wheel being a bit more so this isn't adding a significant expense to the service. But as I mentioned, vintage is a different story. Here is a worn third wheel pivot from a vintage watch:



This part is long discontinued, but I did manage to find a brand new one - cost will be $150, so this one worn part will cost more than all the worn parts on the 2824-2 combined. On a vintage movement the parts cost can quickly rise to a point where it costs more to service the watch than it's worth.

So rather than sticking to dogmatic claims made by people on forums, I encourage people to think about things themselves, and do the research needed to determine what makes the most sense for the watches you have.

Cheers, Al
 
Posts
16,856
Likes
47,859
Of course you are free to believe what you like, but we have no background info. on the Sinn, or how it came to be in such poor condition. For all we know it may have sat with the caseback off for two years in a poor environment.

Pretty sure the background info would be - worn on the wrist.
Bet you have fun at the Doctors
 
Posts
15
Likes
8
I've not been substantively in the hobby long, though my discussions with my grandfather, who was a watchmaker for some years, amounted to the position that mechanical watches should be serviced every five years or so to keep them running smoothly. That said, it wasn't a maxim he lived by, except with the watches he most cared about, as I've discovered. The mechanical watches I received from him have all required extensive servicing to restore to running condition, after being left for nearly twenty years.

That said, it was less that he was uninterested in serving them and more than he simply didn't have the time to do it himself and hadn't found anyone he trusted to do it. Compounding that, his favourites were f300s, which require less regular servicing, from what I've been told.

Personally, as long as I can afford to, I plan to service my mechanical watches on that 5-year schedule, as best I can, because they are ultimately machines, and machines need love. As others have mentioned, there's a lot of similarity with cars, and I wouldn't let my cars get much beyond their service schedule without attention. So far I've not had too much to worry about, having had mostly quartz/electric watches and one mechanical. Now I have more to worry about.

Whether I fall into the same trap as my grandfather, however, remains to be seen.
 
Posts
258
Likes
230
This thread has been very helpful, thank you all for your responses!

I wanted to pick up a bang for your buck watch (perhaps a vintage omega) but am now second guessing that decision due to higher maintenance costs for vintage pieces (I would get routine services as watch condition is important to me).

This thread has also guided me towards a smaller collection, which I am now considering to be 3-5 watches excluding beaters.