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luzer
·another pic \
Thoughts on this 321 Speedmaster Brown/Tropical/Chocolate Dial 105-003
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Barking mad
··Prolific Speedmaster HoarderLooks like it has been re-lumed. From what you can see of the case it appears to be sharp and not over polished, bezel is well worn but ok. I gather it is 66 or later. Would like to see the back. Is it for sale?
Cheers
Cheers
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luzer
·relumed. not great to me. for sale at 3000 EUR
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luzer
·not mine. i am interested though
Reference: ST Speedmaster 145012-67
- Dial and hands original tritium, with a uniform patina. Inscription "T swiss made T". The dial is absolutely free of scratches.
- Case in very good condition
- Caliber No. 321 26.077.XXX revised in 2012 by the previous owner. Perfect running: reset the clock, keeping time ...
- Bezel Original (dot over 90) in very good condition except for a few small scratches between 60 and 65
- The crown is a version with 32 teeth, probably genuine (145012 were probably fitted with two types of crowns including this one)
- Glass hesalite original with the narrow omega logo in the center
- Engraving of caseback is very crisp
- Pushers conform to the reference 145012
Reference: ST Speedmaster 145012-67
- Dial and hands original tritium, with a uniform patina. Inscription "T swiss made T". The dial is absolutely free of scratches.
- Case in very good condition
- Caliber No. 321 26.077.XXX revised in 2012 by the previous owner. Perfect running: reset the clock, keeping time ...
- Bezel Original (dot over 90) in very good condition except for a few small scratches between 60 and 65
- The crown is a version with 32 teeth, probably genuine (145012 were probably fitted with two types of crowns including this one)
- Glass hesalite original with the narrow omega logo in the center
- Engraving of caseback is very crisp
- Pushers conform to the reference 145012
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Barking mad
··Prolific Speedmaster HoarderFor 3000 EUR I would like original lume. What is the back of the case like?
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Joe K.
··Curious about this text thingy below his avatarFor 3000 EUR I would want a 105.012. This is overpriced.
For 3000 EUR I would like original lume. What is the back of the case like?
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Barking mad
··Prolific Speedmaster HoarderFor 3000 EUR I would want a 105.012. This is overpriced.
Fair call
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pitpro
·IMHO, if you enjoy them, Tropical dials are very collectible.
2 types, UV affected and Manufacturing defects in known serial
ranges. Both are highly desirable. Value will always be based
on condition. Right now, Speedmaster Tropcial are undervalued.
Take for example the Rolex 1680 Red produced in 1969 with a
serial in 2.2-2.3 million. These watches can command a premium
of 100% over a Rolex 1680 Red with the same meters first dial
that does not have the defect(and is black), and is in a 2.1 or 2.4 serial range.
For UV affected, the more symmetrical the brown toning, and
the better the overall condition, the higher the value.
But in both cases, they must be obviously Brown, or the
Tropical collector just keeps looking for the obviously brown one.
1969 was a very good year for Tropical dials. Coincidence?
2 types, UV affected and Manufacturing defects in known serial
ranges. Both are highly desirable. Value will always be based
on condition. Right now, Speedmaster Tropcial are undervalued.
Take for example the Rolex 1680 Red produced in 1969 with a
serial in 2.2-2.3 million. These watches can command a premium
of 100% over a Rolex 1680 Red with the same meters first dial
that does not have the defect(and is black), and is in a 2.1 or 2.4 serial range.
For UV affected, the more symmetrical the brown toning, and
the better the overall condition, the higher the value.
But in both cases, they must be obviously Brown, or the
Tropical collector just keeps looking for the obviously brown one.
1969 was a very good year for Tropical dials. Coincidence?
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JohnSteed
·IMHO, ..., Value will always be based
on condition. Right now, Speedmaster Tropcial are undervalued.
in my ho, it appears to have been a pretty blatant re-lume attemp (on a desktop) which may not seem as clear on a smartphone.
Anywho, Eur 3K seems excessive for this one again, imho
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initialjh
·
Having tropical / chocolate dial is fine if that's your preference. Not mine. However, if tropical, I believe, should be evenly browned and consistent across the dial. The hands should be roughly aged as the dial as well. But all these points are my personal preference.
I don't think tropical = higher price.
the first 105003 you showed, that movement needs a good bath! And that's a high price. Having said that, if that's the market price, i'm glad I got into the act many years ago.
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initialjh
·IMHO, if you enjoy them, Tropical dials are very collectible.
2 types, UV affected and Manufacturing defects in known serial
ranges. Both are highly desirable. Value will always be based
on condition. Right now, Speedmaster Tropcial are undervalued.
Take for example the Rolex 1680 Red produced in 1969 with a
serial in 2.2-2.3 million. These watches can command a premium
of 100% over a Rolex 1680 Red with the same meters first dial
that does not have the defect(and is black), and is in a 2.1 or 2.4 serial range.
For UV affected, the more symmetrical the brown toning, and
the better the overall condition, the higher the value.
But in both cases, they must be obviously Brown, or the
Tropical collector just keeps looking for the obviously brown one.
1969 was a very good year for Tropical dials. Coincidence?
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g-boac
·relume?
Can anyone who thinks this is a relume add why, or what the tells are indicating a relume? I'm asking because I've seen several speedies (and specifically, 145.012-67's with this color lume, and, with slight puffiness to the lume, and with the lume markers appearing to be *slightly* hand-applied.
The puffiness of the -67 markers I've seen in this picture (and in several other examples) is consistent with the texture and puffing and tone known to be seen on Submariner lume from this period, as is the behavior of the lume: if you hold it to a strong light, it will glow briefly when viewed in very dark conditions immediately thereafter.
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=123465
Also, if you look at the geometry of the lume painted onto this NASA 105.012-66 that was worn by Gene Cernan on the moon:
http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?object=nasm_A19771179000
you'll see that while the color of the lume is very different, the geometry, including some white "gaps" of the plots showing underneath the lume are very consistent with the geometry of the 145.012-67 subject in this thread. And we know that this watch wasn't subject to a bad relume from a shady eBay seller; after going to the moon, it went to the Smithsonian.
So what we're left with is the color on the -67 being different from Cernan's watch (but similar to two other examples of 145.012-67s I've seen). . .and for that matter, some of the Seamaster 300s from -67 whose lume ages to this color), and, it is well established in both the Omega field, and in the Rolex thread referenced above, that tritium paints seemed to vary widely from the mid-60s to the mid-70s, and beyond, and that can be what we're seeing here. I'm guessing the reason for the variance is that a big lot was mixed by the manufacturer each year, which was then distributed to the few suppliers who built (and lumed) all the watch dials for watch companies.
In short - I'm not saying this 145.012-67 wasn't relumed. . .but asking why people think it may have been, and pointing out that the look of this dial and handset are consistent with at least two other examples of 145.012-67s (and Rolex Subs) that I've seen. I think this will be a great discussion, so please, let's talk!
cheers,
Mark
Can anyone who thinks this is a relume add why, or what the tells are indicating a relume? I'm asking because I've seen several speedies (and specifically, 145.012-67's with this color lume, and, with slight puffiness to the lume, and with the lume markers appearing to be *slightly* hand-applied.
The puffiness of the -67 markers I've seen in this picture (and in several other examples) is consistent with the texture and puffing and tone known to be seen on Submariner lume from this period, as is the behavior of the lume: if you hold it to a strong light, it will glow briefly when viewed in very dark conditions immediately thereafter.
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=123465
Also, if you look at the geometry of the lume painted onto this NASA 105.012-66 that was worn by Gene Cernan on the moon:
http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?object=nasm_A19771179000
you'll see that while the color of the lume is very different, the geometry, including some white "gaps" of the plots showing underneath the lume are very consistent with the geometry of the 145.012-67 subject in this thread. And we know that this watch wasn't subject to a bad relume from a shady eBay seller; after going to the moon, it went to the Smithsonian.
So what we're left with is the color on the -67 being different from Cernan's watch (but similar to two other examples of 145.012-67s I've seen). . .and for that matter, some of the Seamaster 300s from -67 whose lume ages to this color), and, it is well established in both the Omega field, and in the Rolex thread referenced above, that tritium paints seemed to vary widely from the mid-60s to the mid-70s, and beyond, and that can be what we're seeing here. I'm guessing the reason for the variance is that a big lot was mixed by the manufacturer each year, which was then distributed to the few suppliers who built (and lumed) all the watch dials for watch companies.
In short - I'm not saying this 145.012-67 wasn't relumed. . .but asking why people think it may have been, and pointing out that the look of this dial and handset are consistent with at least two other examples of 145.012-67s (and Rolex Subs) that I've seen. I think this will be a great discussion, so please, let's talk!
cheers,
Mark
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luzer
·another tropical option. 145012. fair price?
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luzer
·
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Lex4TDI4Life
·Scraped off lume, wrong bezel, a bit over polished. Not deal breakers, but should warrant a sizeable discount.
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LouS
··Mrs Nataf's Other SonNice even brown on that one though. It seems I've seen it around here before. Whose is it?
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luzer
·a few more to look at...
1) 2998-6
2) 29989-61
3) 2998-2
4) 321 NAAFI
1) 2998-6
2) 29989-61
3) 2998-2
4) 321 NAAFI
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pitpro
·relume?
Can anyone who thinks this is a relume add why, or what the tells are indicating a relume? I'm asking because I've seen several speedies (and specifically, 145.012-67's with this color lume, and, with slight puffiness to the lume, and with the lume markers appearing to be *slightly* hand-applied.
The puffiness of the -67 markers I've seen in this picture (and in several other examples) is consistent with the texture and puffing and tone known to be seen on Submariner lume from this period, as is the behavior of the lume: if you hold it to a strong light, it will glow briefly when viewed in very dark conditions immediately thereafter.
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=123465
Also, if you look at the geometry of the lume painted onto this NASA 105.012-66 that was worn by Gene Cernan on the moon:
http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?object=nasm_A19771179000
you'll see that while the color of the lume is very different, the geometry, including some white "gaps" of the plots showing underneath the lume are very consistent with the geometry of the 145.012-67 subject in this thread. And we know that this watch wasn't subject to a bad relume from a shady eBay seller; after going to the moon, it went to the Smithsonian.
So what we're left with is the color on the -67 being different from Cernan's watch (but similar to two other examples of 145.012-67s I've seen). . .and for that matter, some of the Seamaster 300s from -67 whose lume ages to this color), and, it is well established in both the Omega field, and in the Rolex thread referenced above, that tritium paints seemed to vary widely from the mid-60s to the mid-70s, and beyond, and that can be what we're seeing here. I'm guessing the reason for the variance is that a big lot was mixed by the manufacturer each year, which was then distributed to the few suppliers who built (and lumed) all the watch dials for watch companies.
In short - I'm not saying this 145.012-67 wasn't relumed. . .but asking why people think it may have been, and pointing out that the look of this dial and handset are consistent with at least two other examples of 145.012-67s (and Rolex Subs) that I've seen. I think this will be a great discussion, so please, let's talk!
cheers,
Mark
of "puffiness" and geometry"(as you call it) when I saw the post you are referencing.
And I've had the same feelings other times when I see people talking relume on '67 dials.
I just didn't feel like getting into a big discussion about it.
But I agree with everything you've stated here about '67 145.012's
All you have to do is go look at a bunch of them and it will
become obvious.
As for the lume color-
I also have one of the best 166.024's I've
ever seen and the lume is the same color.
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