Thoughts on a rough-looking 6217-8001

[__ryan__]

I'm considering this watch. Everything looks to be original, but it's in pretty rough shape. Does anything jump out as incorrect?

In my opinion, the case is sharp and there may be a nice dial. The bezel is damaged and the lume pip would need some attention. Although a pristine bezel would be nice, I think I'm alright with the bezel condition on this sort of diver. Some mold on the marker/hand lume, but not the worst. I'm not the best judge of this, so perhaps folks can chime in. Case back etching is somewhat worn and obviously it would need a service for regular wear.

On one hand, I wonder if it's a project that might clean up reasonably well. On the other, I wonder if I should just be more patient for a better example. I guess it will depend on price and that's TBD.

 

[Dan S]

It’s a bit rough all around but it looks legit at first glance and if you find it appealing that’s the most important thing. There are better examples and there are worse, it’s your choice. The price should obviously reflect the condition.

 

[Dsloan]

I'd go for it, if the price was right. Seems like it needs: new crystal, possible service, and possibly relume the pip if you want?

These models are getting expensive. People are asking $1.5K-$2.5K for examples in rough condition. And, it seems like good examples are hard to come by at any price.

 

[Aroxx]

I don’t know anything about these but I think it will clean up nice. Like you said, the case is super sharp and the pip will need to be figured out. A new crystal or a wet sand will have it looking sparkly new. The only thing to my eye is the lume. Maybe a relume candidate but it’s really not too bad. I actually like the bezel “patina” on this one. Gives it the vintage tool watch vibe.

 

[Dan S]

I just picked up #4, to go along with the others. 🤨

 

[Dsloan]

Dan S

I just picked up #4, to go along with the others. 🤨

I'm sure I've made this joke before but still: so there's where all the good ones are hiding!!!

I call dibs, if you ever come to your senses and realize that 4 is too many 😜

 

[__ryan__]

Dsloan

Seems like it needs: new crystal, possible service, and possibly relume the pip if you want?

Yep, that's about what I was thinking. And a new black rubber strap.

 

[__ryan__]

Dan S

I just picked up #4

Ouch, my eyes!

Have you done some rehab, or did they come to you in that condition?

 

[Dan S]

__ryan__

Ouch, my eyes!

Have you done some rehab, or did they come to you in that condition?

The most recent one had a bit of shmutz under the bezel. 😁 I also polished the crystal.

 

[__ryan__]

Well, I took a swing at it, but finished as the under-bidder. Auction ended at ~1600 usd. Back to the drawing board. 😀

 

[Anthony Lane]

I never judge a watch by a scratched crystal. This one looks quite nice after a proper clean up. Full disclosure: I prefer character over condition, within reason.

 

[tennjed]

It is an attractive model. I guess it is also pretty cool, if one is so inclined, that examples of the first dive watch produced by Seiko are still available for purchase by anyone who is willing to pay the price. Given my preference for minimalism, I think this is about the most attractive dive watch model I have seen. Did Seiko produce anything close this, but without the date window?

 

[Dan S]

tennjed

It is an attractive model. I guess it is also pretty cool, if one is so inclined, that examples of the first dive watch produced by Seiko are still available for purchase by anyone who is willing to pay the price. Given my preference for minimalism, I think this is about the most attractive dive watch model I have seen. Did Seiko produce anything close this, but without the date window?

Seiko's actual dive watches with external rotating bezels generally have date windows as far as I can remember. They do have some water resistant sport watches from the same era without date.

In fact, there is a date-less Sea Horse with an almost identical dial as the 62MAS, but it's quite uncommon. There is also the Silver Wave, which is more like a dive watch in that it has an internal rotating "bezel". These photos came from Fratello's website. The Alpinist was another sport model that came without date feature IIRC.

Edited: Jun 23, 2023

 

[Jim W]

The 62mas is one my favourite Seiko divers, Here's a rarely seen 1967 Daini Seikosha 62mas....

 

[__ryan__]

Jim W

The 62mas is one my favourite Seiko divers, Here's a rarely seen 1967 Daini Seikosha 62mas....

Wow, the lume on that one looks fantastic. I remember reading that the Daini lume tends to age differently. Very nice 👍.

Edited: Oct 23, 2023

 

[Jim W]

__ryan__

Wow, the lume on that one looks fantastic. I remember reading that the Daini lume tends to age to differently. Very nice 👍.

Here’s the condition I received the watch…. I sent it to Duncan Hewitt (The Watch Bloke) for service and relume to original.
62mas are very susceptible to water ingress, fortunately they are easy to relume.
It’s 56 years old after all…

 

[__ryan__]

Jim W

Here’s the condition I received the watch….

Were the hour markers completely re-lumed, just cleaned up, or something in-between? They look very natural, with some subtle discoloration near the edges. I had read that once the chrome plating on those markers is damaged or discolored, it's difficult to repair. But your example suggests otherwise. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Dan S]

Jim W

The 62mas is one my favourite Seiko divers, Here's a rarely seen 1967 Daini Seikosha 62mas....

Yes, very nice find. Unfortunate that it needed a re-lume, since the lume is really the defining feature. I have a Daini 6105-8009, but not a 6217. This photos really shows the contrast in lume color from the two factories.

 

[Jim W]

__ryan__

Were the hour markers completely re-lumed, just cleaned up, or something in-between? They look very natural, with some subtle discoloration near the edges. I had read that once the chrome plating on those markers is damaged or discolored, it's difficult to repair. But your example suggests otherwise. Thanks for sharing.

Aside from the vegetables growing in the lume plots, the dial was in very good condition. Mould in the lume isn't patina, it's a fungal growth, living organisms which have no place on a watch dial. The slightest water ingress and the damp conditions encourage mould to grow. Like many watches of this era, the 62mas, 6159, 6105, and 6139 are especially susceptible.

All Daini 62mas have a horseshoe caseback... but not all horseshoe casebacks are Daini, most are Suwa.
Here's a few more pic's.









Suwa and Daini:

 

[Dan S]

__ryan__

Were the hour markers completely re-lumed, just cleaned up, or something in-between? They look very natural, with some subtle discoloration near the edges. I had read that once the chrome plating on those markers is damaged or discolored, it's difficult to repair. But your example suggests otherwise. Thanks for sharing.

Several watchmakers who frequently work on vintage Seikos routinely improve the appearance of oxidized markers and hands. I don't know exactly how they do it, whether it is just gentle cleaning, polishing, some sort of treatment ... I'm not sure. But I have firsthand experience with some very unexpected and welcome results. It's really nice when I buy a watch thinking that the hands and markers aren't great, but I can live with them, and then the watch comes back from a service with clean markers and hands.

Regarding the moldy lume that @Jim W mentioned, Spencer Klein frequently mentions a product that he uses to restore the lume to its original color. The videos are extremely impressive, but it seems to be something proprietary because I don't really know anyone else who does it, and obviously I have no idea if it is a permanent solution.