This is why I still love eBay

140dave · Oct 22, 2020

I believe he will let it run its course. From talking to him, he had no idea just listed what the watch said clearly on the movement. Sold it for the $350, someone reached out said he blew it and would Buy It Now at 3k if relisted, did so and another person stepped in and told what was going on with the watch. Seller says he has had multiple $10k offerers, I know of at least one, he says, and is going to let it run it’s course. Which I Really hope he does. Maybe not the best start with multiple relists but I get it from his side, don’t think he is particularly well off from our convo and his eBay history.

140dave · Oct 22, 2020

jshopper1
I see some red flags.

The case back and crystal apparently show a lot of pocket wear. The crystal probably is glass and it may surface scratches from normal wear.

In itself, normal wear is not a problem. But, show me the inside of the case back. I want to see watchmakers marks showing commensurate service. Also I want to verify that the case back is marked as a Bunn Special case.

The second hand is missing. Again, not a insurmountable problem. A replacement second hand should be easy to source.

But why is the second hand missing? Why is the movement so clean on a watch case that apparently has so much wear?

Next, about the seller: He has less than 50 feedbacks, none of which relate to watches.

His photos are remarkably clear and good. For a watch noob to take such good photos is unusual. Have you ever tried to shoot a pocket watch movement? It is darned hard to do without experience and equipment. It is all to easy to get glare and reflections. His shots show movement details clearly.

These are just red flags that I noticed. They don't prove anything. But for the potentially high price that this watch may realize I need some answers before I commit my $$$.

Dennis Lockwood

Ummm, none of that matters to me one bit. You are paying for the movement. That case back will not say Bunn Special, it is the 118 model from Star and was not marked Bunn Special.
All of the movement shots I have posted in other threads are from my iPhone on my desk, pretty easy to get a good movement shot. It looks like a used watch that someone’s dad gave them.

Well worn outside and still pristine inside is not at all uncommon, a lot of people never service watches they own. (gasp) I know, but it’s true, especially in depression era material like this.

mzinski · Oct 22, 2020

Thanks for sharing! It was nice to learn about this watches history this morning - I would have otherwise been completely unaware of it.

Mad Dog · Oct 22, 2020

140dave
...Less than 50 thought to have been made...

Yeppers, @140dave...holy smokes...from the Pocket Watch Database...

jshopper1 · Oct 22, 2020

Hey 140 Dave,

You're right about the 118 case. It will not be marked "Bunn Special."

You're also right about this being a very rare movement! Interesting to see where this auction ends.

I follow the old saying when buying a pricey watch: Buy the seller first, then the watch.

This may end up being a totally legitimate auction, I hope that it is. And I hope that the seller realizes a fair price.

Thanks for bringing up this thread. Very interesting.

Dennis Lockwood

greyfox422 · Oct 22, 2020

Great post.

How mad are the guys that bought it for $350 and $3000 and didn't get the watch?

140dave · Oct 22, 2020

👍Agree on Buy The Seller in 95% of the auctions, for me this is an exception as you dont have the option to find this from another seller. There is a chance of huge disappointment for someone based on that, true enough, but I dont think that will be the case. I am as skeptical as they get but because of the history of this watch I think it is a true "barn find" and a windfall for the seller who was initially happy to get $350 for it.

There was no fanfare with this watch, it was the last release of a dying brand. No one (in the hobby) really even knew about the existence of the 161B until factory records were researched in the 1980's, then for awhile, it was "known" but no one had actually seen one. Hence @Mad Dog post of this being the first he has seen. I have owned all of the "Seven Stars" of Illinois including the 163 TII (another of only 50pieces) but this is another league and is the only 60 hour I have never owned. I have only held one, at a watch show (remember those?) in 1995 when it was offered to me for $18k

greyfox422
Great post.

How mad are the guys that bought it for $350 and $3000 and didn't get the watch?

Still crying I am sure! Especially that first guy, I bet his work suffered today!

Deafboy · Oct 22, 2020

greyfox422
How mad are the guys that bought it for $350 and $3000 and didn't get the watch?

From a legal standpoint my understanding it's a binding contract and the seller broke it (twice!). Can the buyer sue for damages?

MoclovFlop · Oct 22, 2020

Deafboy
From a legal standpoint my understanding it's a bonding contract and the seller broke it (twice!). Can the buyer sue for damages?

Damages would assume the buyer lost something like wages or livelihood from not getting a random watch unexpectedly for $350 or $3000. Unless he could prove his business was directly affected by not getting the watch (like he had written another contract with another buyer between the time of buying and getting it canceled, AND the seller knew the buyer had this contract written up).

But without buyer possession, it probably wouldn't be considered.

Buyer could maybe sue for any paypal fees he incurred from the cancelation? But I don't think there would be any if the seller is the one who canceled.

For damages you'd have to prove that they are casual, foreseeable, reasonably certain and unavoidable. Seller had no idea what the buyer intended to do.

I'm not a lawyer.

Deafboy · Oct 22, 2020

MoclovFlop
I'm not a lawyer.

Well, I'm not a green bird. 😉

Thanks for the insight. I'm not sure what what it means then to have a binding contract. Suppose the buyer paid the seller for the item, the seller changes his mind and reimburses the buyer. No consequence for this behavior?

MoclovFlop · Oct 22, 2020

Deafboy
Well, I'm not a green bird. 😉

Thanks for the insight. I'm not sure what what it means then to have a binding contract. Suppose the buyer paid the seller for the item, the seller changes his mind and reimburses the buyer. No consequence for this behavior?

I think ebay would be the one to impose the smack down on the seller. Especially for canceling that $3000 one. But like others have said, if they claim lost or broken, I think it's a loophole?

Mad Dog · Oct 22, 2020

Since I’ll probably never see a pic of a 161 B ever again, I screen shot the eBay listing...

...and I’ll probably sell copies of those pics on eBay later...because that’s how I roll. 😁 😉 😁 😉 😁

Waltesefalcon · Oct 23, 2020

Holy Smokes, A 161B!

140dave · Oct 28, 2020

Finished at $11,600 not too shabby but I think the cancelled sales probably kept a few bidders away. I know on the pocketwatch forums there were a few big players that just didn’t trust that the sale would be without issues after 2 others previously “purchased” the watch.

Mark020 · Oct 28, 2020

Ended at USD 11.600

This is why I still love eBay

140dave

140dave

mzinski

Mad Dog

jshopper1

greyfox422

140dave

Deafboy

MoclovFlop

Deafboy

MoclovFlop

Mad Dog

Waltesefalcon

140dave

Mark020

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