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This is why I still love eBay

140dave
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Man, once in a while something exciting comes around and this is a perfect example. Many complain about eBay, it’s ever increasing fees and hassle lead the list and rightly so, but then something like this pops up:
64D67318-0B79-42A2-AADE-8FAE973AC603.png
So I know this doesn’t look like much but trust me, watch this auction. This is the Grail for any Illinois collector. Less than 50 thought to have been made, this is only the ninth one to appear in the market. That’s it, until this one popped up only 8 had been found. I’ve seen 2 in the past decade.

The description is fantastic “It was working, now it’s not so I’m selling it”. Seller has absolutely no idea what they have. Without eBay this would be in a pawn shop and the seller probably would have walked with $50 and the hobby would have never even know. Now someone somewhere is debating selling their car to have a shot at this one. And no, no affiliation just so excited to see this piece appear and thought worth sharing.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114475394582
 
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BenBagbag
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Thank you! For those of us who don't know the significance of the watch (in terms of function) what makes it special?
 
140dave
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BenBagbag BenBagbag
Thank you! For those of us who don't know the significance of the watch (in terms of function) what makes it special?
Functionally, nothing at all. Historically an important piece in the progression and mechanization of the American pocket watch industry. These are the only Bunn Specials to have been made with pressed jewels instead of ones held in place by screws. This allowed further mechanization in the factory, less hand work, higher production.
Hamilton bought the Illinois watch company and this was one of the last Illinois pieces ever produced. As Hamilton phased out the 992 movement in favor of the new 992B movement, moving to pressed jewels, they produced a small handful under the Illinois Bunn Special moniker. Factory records indicate a run of 50 were made, this serial number falls right in place. I am pretty sure am right on the 8 known pieces, could be off by one but this is no more than #10 at most.

And, heck of a watch too, Railroad grade so had to be able to maintain +/- 30sec per week accuracy standards.
 
Mad Dog
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Hot dang...a 161B...I’ve never even seen a pic of one until now...I’ve only read [and drooled at] the listing in the 2018 Complete Price Guide To Watches [see below]. Thanks for posting that, @140dave. 👍

EAEC56A1-B969-411B-8B83-CA3158EB0198.jpeg
Edited:
 
Marsimaxam
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Amazing... looks all original too. Considering bidding is at almost 8K and with 6 days remaining in the auction, I wouldn't be surprised if the seller does a little research and finds out that he has a holy grail and cancels the sell to put up in an large auction house. I'm watching this one.

Thank you for sharing...
 
Engee
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Why do you think the seller doesn’t know what he has? The listing title seems to include all the right words to attract a collector. Wouldn't someone who didn’t know what it was a) list it as something simple like “Illinois pocket watch” and b) make the dial the main picture rather than the movement?

I wonder if the “selling because it stopped working three days ago” is a misdirection of some kind.
Edited:
 
janice&fred
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Engee Engee
Why do you think the seller doesn’t know what he has? The listing title seems to include all the right words to attract a collector. Would someone who didn’t know what it was a) list it as something simple like “Illinois pocket watch” and b) make the front the main picture rather than the movement?

I wonder if the “selling because it stopped working three days ago” is a misdirection of some kind.

I must agree. Selling because it stopped working 3 days ago is like saying I'm selling this well preserved vintage 911S as it has a flat tire.
 
Pearcey74
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Thats a very good point, I have had a whinge on here about Ebay in the last day or so, but, you are right, a lot of very good watches have made it onto the market because of Ebay.
I like the one's that have pictures that look like they were taken with a "Box Brownie" or through the glass of a fish tank!
I hope you can secure the watch, good luck.
 
Lucasssssss
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Engee Engee
Why do you think the seller doesn’t know what he has? The listing title seems to include all the right words to attract a collector. Wouldn't someone who didn’t know what it was a) list it as something simple like “Illinois pocket watch” and b) make the dial the main picture rather than the movement?

I wonder if the “selling because it stopped working three days ago” is a misdirection of some kind.

Perhaps, but it does say so quite clearly on the movement, the guy is also selling car parts. I would wager he does not know what he has.
 
TasMike
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He did start the auction at $2000 - for a pocket watch that doesn't work. I'd say that he did have an inkling.
 
Deafboy
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Movement is in terrific shape. Look at the condition of the screw heads. No hacker went in there. @Fritz, are you watching?
upload_2020-10-22_8-9-49.png
 
Thommas
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Looks like the seller sold it twice at BIN in a matter of minutes before realizing it was worth more than he expected. So I'm on the "he had no clue" side.

upload_2020-10-22_9-31-33.png
 
Engee
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Thommas Thommas
Looks like the seller sold it twice at BIN in a matter of minutes before realizing it was worth more than he expected. So I'm on the "he had no clue" side.

upload_2020-10-22_9-31-33.png
Even stranger. If he sold it at $350 somehow he realised or was told it was worth more, in which case how did he arrive at $2k as the right BIN price and then decide it was still too low? If he didn’t know what he had at first I think we can agree he does now.
 
Thommas
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It could be someone saw the first BIN auction come up in their alerts, didn't have a chance to buy but informed the seller they were willing to pay much more— say $1k for instance. He takes a hint it's worth more than that, re-lists it at $2k and again, it sells in a few minutes. Seller then does more thorough research and starts an auction a $2k to try his luck.
 
Dan S
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After it sells people message him and offer to buy it for more. I don’t know if he will get those selling fees refunded after canceling those sales.
 
Skipper_S
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and maybe now seller is reading this thread and is one step before ending the auction and putting a higher starting price with a reserve price also....😁
 
Vercingetorix
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It is listed as broken. I believe if you cancel an auction that has ended because an item is broken or damaged, you do not have to pay fees.
Edited:
 
jshopper1
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I see some red flags.

The case back and crystal apparently show a lot of pocket wear. The crystal probably is glass and it may surface scratches from normal wear.

In itself, normal wear is not a problem. But, show me the inside of the case back. I want to see watchmakers marks showing commensurate service. Also I want to verify that the case back is marked as a Bunn Special case.

The second hand is missing. Again, not a insurmountable problem. A replacement second hand should be easy to source.

But why is the second hand missing? Why is the movement so clean on a watch case that apparently has so much wear?

Next, about the seller: He has less than 50 feedbacks, none of which relate to watches.

His photos are remarkably clear and good. For a watch noob to take such good photos is unusual. Have you ever tried to shoot a pocket watch movement? It is darned hard to do without experience and equipment. It is all to easy to get glare and reflections. His shots show movement details clearly.

These are just red flags that I noticed. They don't prove anything. But for the potentially high price that this watch may realize I need some answers before I commit my $$$.

Dennis Lockwood
 
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