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These alleged 1:1 knock offs.
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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorThis thread reminds me of something that happened in the coin collecting community decades ago.
There is a US 5 cent coin (we call it a "nickel") from 1913, of which only five specimens are known. Obviously, this was always a very rare and extremely valuable piece. One of these five nickels was acquired by a collector in the late 1950's. After the acquisition, he commissioned an excellent replica. He liked to take the nickel to coin collecting clubs, schools and shows around the USA.
He would review security arrangements, etc. before attending an event and would bring either the real or the fake nickel depending on how he felt about the security at a particular venue.
Sadly, this collector was killed in an auto accident after attending one of these events in 1962. The authorities were able to recover a 1913 Liberty nickel from the crash site, which was given to his family. The family gave the recovered coin to a renowned expert who knew of the existence of the replica. This expert declared this piece to be the replica. The family put the coin back in the safe.
In 2003, the family brought the coin to a reunion of sorts of all five known 1913 Liberty nickels. At that time, photographs were taken of this coin and of the other four known specimens. Modern photo analysis showed that the recovered coin that was ruled a "fake" 40 years earlier, was in fact, the real thing.
https://coins.ha.com/c/newsletter.zx?frame=no&id=4011#collector-c
The moral of this story is that even "renowned experts" can be fooled on occasion.
gatorcpa
There is a US 5 cent coin (we call it a "nickel") from 1913, of which only five specimens are known. Obviously, this was always a very rare and extremely valuable piece. One of these five nickels was acquired by a collector in the late 1950's. After the acquisition, he commissioned an excellent replica. He liked to take the nickel to coin collecting clubs, schools and shows around the USA.
He would review security arrangements, etc. before attending an event and would bring either the real or the fake nickel depending on how he felt about the security at a particular venue.
Sadly, this collector was killed in an auto accident after attending one of these events in 1962. The authorities were able to recover a 1913 Liberty nickel from the crash site, which was given to his family. The family gave the recovered coin to a renowned expert who knew of the existence of the replica. This expert declared this piece to be the replica. The family put the coin back in the safe.
In 2003, the family brought the coin to a reunion of sorts of all five known 1913 Liberty nickels. At that time, photographs were taken of this coin and of the other four known specimens. Modern photo analysis showed that the recovered coin that was ruled a "fake" 40 years earlier, was in fact, the real thing.
https://coins.ha.com/c/newsletter.zx?frame=no&id=4011#collector-c
The moral of this story is that even "renowned experts" can be fooled on occasion.
gatorcpa
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Folgono
·Google watch replicas. You'll be amazed at how good they are. Nothing you state happens with current replicas, but an 18yr old with a beat up honda wearing a Rolex GMT is a better sign.
To be fair this is not an accurate method to tell if a watch is fake. As a 20 year old I wore a few good watches, authentic obviously, while driving my shitty beaten up car. We were joking with my friend that my watch (a Speedy pro) was about 4 times more expensive than my car.
This same friend had himself an old Honda Civic (even if they are getting expensive here in Europe) while wearing some nice watches.
I noticed that a lot of aficionados tend to be averagely dressed, not to say poorly, while sporting JLC, Rolexes etc..., therefore I'm not sure physical appearance is a solid way to distinguish fake.
Moreover I've heard quite a few stories about guys with good paying jobs buying nice fake Rolex because they couldn't see the interest of spending so much in the real deal when the fake would have the same effect.
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nonuffinkbloke
·Google watch replicas. You'll be amazed at how good they are. Nothing you state happens with current replicas, but an 18yr old with a beat up honda wearing a Rolex GMT is a better sign.
Yeah... you can always tell a fake by the wearer! 😟 Today there was an unshaven, grumpy, old bloke, dressed in (work stained) combat trousers, muddy boots, old worn out T-shirt and a baggy pullover, waiting for a bus........ wearing this 'obvious replica' of a 1965, brown dial, Omega Speedmaster. The 'scruffy old guy' even claims it's got the, original, vintage, 321 movement and Omega extract!
D'you know .......he only had about £5 in his pocket and was getting on the bus (with his free bus pass) just to save money on fuel for his "beat up" 14 year old Peugeot!
The scruffy, 'fake watch wearing', 'old basstedd' ! 😁
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nonuffinkbloke
·But as @Wryfox says "you can always tell a fake watch by it's wearer!" 😁
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redpcar
·Some of the Tag Heuer quartz F1's are definitely "dead nuts" copies. Use the same quartz movement. I had 2 side by side one time on my desk for battery replacements for friends. One real. One fake. Out of curiosity, I swapped case backs. They fit.
I was on an international flight one time. My flight attendant, and elderly gentleman, was sporting a Rolex 1675. I said: "Nice watch". He just winked. Yes, I believe it was real 😀
I was on an international flight one time. My flight attendant, and elderly gentleman, was sporting a Rolex 1675. I said: "Nice watch". He just winked. Yes, I believe it was real 😀
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OceanPerpetual
·Many replicas are now being made with 1:1 chinese copies of real movements...Rolex 3135 for example. Want to check authenticity? Take off the back...ah a real rolex movement! But no. Fact is, it all still looks just a little bit off but its made to convince the uneducated jeweler, and give confidence to the knowing buyer he can pass it off.
There are even youtube videos on how to 'age' a replica so it can pass as even more authentic. And China is now making vintage models of all sorts, like 60s/70s Submariners, etc with simulated aged lume....beware!
But in the end, it was on this board I learned that the best way to tell if someone was wearing a fake was to look at the wearer. Its always a dead giveaway.
I read a thread on Reddit about a recent graduate asking which replica was best to give himself as a graduation reward. The response was astonishing....apparently this is a very popular 'in' thing to do.
You wouldn't believe how many friends I had that wanted to buy high quality replicas over quality Seikos, Hamiltons, etc in University a couple years ago. It's all about the look these days, not the substance or principle.
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JwRosenthal
·I have a close friend (runs a small family business, has a kid, doesn’t make much but loves watches) who builds “homage” watches. He hunts down parts and buys from well known replica sources, uses eta movement and goes so far to get factory rotors etc so they even appear real inside.
He’s not trying to fool anyone and doesn’t sell them, he has fun building them himself in his down time. He says he can’t afford the real thing so this is as close as he’ll get. I keep telling him that for the money he has spent on parts to build the multiple rep’s he has, he actually could have already gotten himself something real.
A few months ago, I gave him one of my Rolex’s to do some minor clean-up (seals, crystal polishing, etc) and he wore it for a week or so...now he can’t go back to his rep’s and they are just sitting in a drawer. He even went so far as to build another rep that was near indentical to the one I loaned him...but after having a real one for a bit, he can’t do back.
I know what I’m getting him for his 40th coming up next year.
He’s not trying to fool anyone and doesn’t sell them, he has fun building them himself in his down time. He says he can’t afford the real thing so this is as close as he’ll get. I keep telling him that for the money he has spent on parts to build the multiple rep’s he has, he actually could have already gotten himself something real.
A few months ago, I gave him one of my Rolex’s to do some minor clean-up (seals, crystal polishing, etc) and he wore it for a week or so...now he can’t go back to his rep’s and they are just sitting in a drawer. He even went so far as to build another rep that was near indentical to the one I loaned him...but after having a real one for a bit, he can’t do back.
I know what I’m getting him for his 40th coming up next year.
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Dr. Arnaud
·[QUOTE="He even went so far as to build another rep that was near indentical to the one I loaned him...but after having a real one for a bit, he can’t do back.[/QUOTE]
If he is so good and the replica was almost identical to the original, how can you now be 100% sure that you don't have a replica in your collection?😗
If he is so good and the replica was almost identical to the original, how can you now be 100% sure that you don't have a replica in your collection?😗
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JwRosenthal
·[QUOTE="He even went so far as to build another rep that was near indentical to the one I loaned him...but after having a real one for a bit, he can’t do back.
Because he knew it was fake and now knows what a real one feels like, and sometimes that’s all that matters
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JwRosenthal
·Oh-got the joke- ha!
A little slow tonight.
A little slow tonight.
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Evitzee
·A few years ago there was a raft of Audemars Piguet Royal Oak fakes that even fooled the factory via cursory examination. With all the technology today to make cases and dials fakes are getting easier to make and harder to detect. Buy the seller.
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77deluxe
·Any second now, someone will mention that before long, you will be able to make whatever watch you want on a 3D printer. Wait....I just did mention it.
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Larry S
··Color Commentator for the Hyperbole.Got a facebook advert yesterday for a $39.99 Reverso. No attempt to be honest about it’s origin.
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rcs914
·IMHO, the most difficult fakes to detect are the vintage fakes with a mix of genuine parts. Fake but carefully aged and repolished case, genuine movement, service dial (or a good copy), maybe a genuine used bezel insert and presto! a submariner or an expl2... you must have sharp eyes to see these.
This is basically the whole premise of Orchi Palar's Instagram feed. Look at his tear downs of watches that are vetted by others in the vintage Rolex community and you would never buy anything.
I've also stumbled into some sites that were selling parts and would do custom order cases for 6542's etc. These are cases being created and aged to look fully appropriate and completely indistinguishable, cost about $700-800 for just the case, and take 2-3 months.
Vintage watches are a minefield, but the vintage Rolex minefield uses nuclear ordinance. It is inevitable that when there is so much money on the table that someone will perfect the process.
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Wryfox
·Yep!😀 The scruffy, grumpy, old bloke getting on a bus (with his free bus pass) to save fuel in his 14 year old, "beat up" Peugeot...... was me!😟
But as @Wryfox says "you can always tell a fake watch by it's wearer!" 😁
You know its interesting the folks on this site....what I said was I learned ON THIS SITE a long discussion about fakes and the consensus was the wearer the best way to tell real from fake. I don't know of this is true or not (i certainly don't look the part), but you all fine experts deemed it so.
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Tristanp
·
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Wryfox
·I did quite a bit of research into replicas when I really got into vintage a couple years ago.
Yes, vintage watches are now being copied, not just new editions. Older rolex, UG, JLC etc from 50s 60s. Simpler parts and look, easier function....easier to copy.
What an eye opener. There are multiple internet forums, just like OF, regarding the subject, and very vigorously attended. That's where I learned most of the information.
Yes, boxes and papers are copied as well, and astonishingly good too.
The most interesting thing was that replica buyers will use authentic parts in critical areas to make them look even more real....such as buying dials..which is still one of the most difficult parts to duplicate.
Many have swiss movements but not like a few years ago, restricted access has done that in. So they just copy the movement. easy to do these days with current technology.
Yes, vintage watches are now being copied, not just new editions. Older rolex, UG, JLC etc from 50s 60s. Simpler parts and look, easier function....easier to copy.
What an eye opener. There are multiple internet forums, just like OF, regarding the subject, and very vigorously attended. That's where I learned most of the information.
Yes, boxes and papers are copied as well, and astonishingly good too.
The most interesting thing was that replica buyers will use authentic parts in critical areas to make them look even more real....such as buying dials..which is still one of the most difficult parts to duplicate.
Many have swiss movements but not like a few years ago, restricted access has done that in. So they just copy the movement. easy to do these days with current technology.
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