The lawyers' thread: discussion on watch-related legal matters

Mouse_at_Large · Dec 19, 2019

I've got a law degree in Scots Law (the world's best 😜) a couple of post-grad qualifications and a fair few CPD type modules. Never entered the law profession though. I use my training (and business experience) in the area of Oil and Gas contracts and supplier management. Things like supply agreements, charter parties, rig hire contracts and the like.

My one piece of advice would be - when you look at any piece of text, be it in an advert, description etc, base your expectations on what it actually says. If you have to start having to add words or implications beyond the ordinary meaning of the words used to get to what you want it to mean, then you probably don't have the same understanding as the writer. If in doubt, clarification > assumption 😗

queriver · Jan 8, 2020

A question for the lawyers: if your employer (watch coy) released a new watch with known deficiencies in the case design that results in sub optimal protection for its chrono pushers, how would you advise the company to protect itself during and after the warranty period? In the specific instance the watch company knew about the problem years ago and changed the design and now they are going back to the original design. For those that don’t know what watch we're talking about, it’s the new 321 Ed White.

ICONO · Jan 8, 2020

JwRosenthal
As a lay-person ( not a law-person) I never thought about this but it makes total sense! In my
line of work, there are several processes that require total creative concentration and when your on a roll and have multiple projects going at once, you get your mojo going and having to break from that totally destroys the creative juices. My office tried to implement an accountability for time system (like a timesheet keeping) so our work could be billed against different project accounts. It was arduous and totally broke our productivity having to stop tasks to log time and switch gears as we had applied our allotted 3 hours towards that project’s funding- the utmost of bean-counter ridiculousness.
I can totally see the creative process in law (researching, preparing a brief or argument) being a absolute creative process that requires

When I’m asked how long does something take to get done, my answer is usually- it takes as long as it takes.

Completely disagree.…

The whole point about being a Professional…is that one achieves the desired result, within the allocated budget

If you waste time, & spend longer, than allotted…you will swiftly fail to make the necessary profit, needed to pay your employees…and the business, fast becomes unsustainable

This is based on 30 years past experience, running a big Studio…shooting on location, across Europe, and the UK…and a turnover, in multiple 6 figures

I now teach ‘Creativity’ to University Students, all over Great Britain...creativity is not divinely bestowed…its all process, collaboration, reflection, evaluation, & experience…in other words…simply ‘technique’, that can be learnt

janice&fred · Jan 8, 2020

Lotus_Eater8815
- appeals court attorney
- based in the Philippines

you should touch on some of the bizarre realities of Philippine law, especially related to the process of and limitations of law enforcement to make an arrest of an individual. explain the limitations of police unless it's a "hot pursuit". even if suspected of murder. someone actually has to "file a case" against a murderer to begin the process. no one willing to file a case? a criminal remains free. the entire premise would have the rest of the lawyers on this thread aghast.

lindo · Jan 8, 2020

queriver
A question for the lawyers: if your employer (watch coy) released a new watch with known deficiencies in the case design that results in sub optimal protection for its chrono pushers, how would you advise the company to protect itself during and after the warranty period? In the specific instance the watch company knew about the problem years ago and changed the design and now they are going back to the original design. For those that don’t know what watch we're talking about, it’s the new 321 Ed White.

Interesting point. Does that suggest the new 321 should be sold with a disclaimer?

queriver · Jan 8, 2020

lindo
Interesting point. Does that suggest the new 321 should be sold with a disclaimer?

Perhaps, I don't know how, but if I was Omega I would attempt to protect myself because it is public knowledge the change to the asymmetric case design was to provide better protection for the pushers.

JwRosenthal · Jan 8, 2020

ICONO
Completely disagree.…

The whole point about being a Professional…is that one achieves the desired result, within the allocated budget

If you waste time, & spend longer, than allotted…you will swiftly fail to make the necessary profit, needed to pay your employees…and the business, fast becomes unsustainable

This is based on 30 years past experience, running a big Studio…shooting on location, across Europe, and the UK…and a turnover, in multiple 6 figures

I now teach ‘Creativity’ to University Students, all over Great Britain...creativity is not divinely bestowed…its all process, collaboration, reflection, evaluation, & experience…in other words…simply ‘technique’, that can be learnt

Ok- @ICONO - the italicized Professional- how am I supposed to interpret that? Yes, you are a photographer, so am I. You are now a professor, I am not- I am still a practicing professional.
My job working for the federal government for the last 20 years has always been about accountability, deadlines, budgets and “doing more with less”.
The point I was making was simply that while engaged in any process, be it creative, industrial, or intellectual, having to break from the process mid-stream (in this specific case -time keeping accountability) disrupts the work-flow. In the case of preparing a legal brief or argument, I can see how trying to keep your mind focused on the task, but having to break from the art of writing an argument becuase you have exceeded the allotted 12 minutes that has been billed to the account, can become frustrating.

krogerfoot · Jan 8, 2020

JwRosenthal
how am I supposed to interpret that?

In the spirit of this thread, I'd suggest objecting to and moving to strike the comment as non-responsive to your post.

Screwbacks · Jan 8, 2020

queriver
A question for the lawyers: if your employer (watch coy) released a new watch with known deficiencies in the case design that results in sub optimal protection for its chrono pushers, how would you advise the company to protect itself during and after the warranty period? In the specific instance the watch company knew about the problem years ago and changed the design and now they are going back to the original design. For those that don’t know what watch we're talking about, it’s the new 321 Ed White.

i would advise pro bono not to pick your pocket so often so it wont get your 003.321 pushers stuck or rip off.😁

jaspers · Jan 9, 2020

queriver
A question for the lawyers: if your employer (watch coy) released a new watch with known deficiencies in the case design that results in sub optimal protection for its chrono pushers, how would you advise the company to protect itself during and after the warranty period? In the specific instance the watch company knew about the problem years ago and changed the design and now they are going back to the original design. For those that don’t know what watch we're talking about, it’s the new 321 Ed White.

I consider this more a question of engineering than of law. Omega would be remiss not to have engineered the pushers better this time around, without compromising the 321 case shape—for instance by materials used, or assembly thereof. As far as I understand the (recently extended) warranty similarly applies to the new Ed White, so rest assured this new release is much more durable than the original.

Walrus · Jan 9, 2020

krogerfoot
In the spirit of this thread, I'd suggest objecting to and moving to strike the comment as non-responsive to your post.

And the jury will disregard.

janice&fred · Jan 9, 2020

ICONO
Completely disagree.…

The whole point about being a Professional…is that one achieves the desired result, within the allocated budget

If you waste time, & spend longer, than allotted…you will swiftly fail to make the necessary profit, needed to pay your employees…and the business, fast becomes unsustainable

This is based on 30 years past experience, running a big Studio…shooting on location, across Europe, and the UK…and a turnover, in multiple 6 figures

I now teach ‘Creativity’ to University Students, all over Great Britain...creativity is not divinely bestowed…its all process, collaboration, reflection, evaluation, & experience…in other words…simply ‘technique’, that can be learnt

bang! right you are! I too adhere to your definition of Professional and always achieve the desired result within budget.

if I were to waste time and take too long on each client's assignment the profit plummets.

I base this on 6 months of cleaning pools thru out my location, pedaling my bike across town with pool net in hand.

someday I too hope to teach and share my knowledge to other aspiring pool-boys...in other words...

queriver · Jan 9, 2020

jaspers
I consider this more a question of engineering than of law. Omega would be remiss not to have engineered the pushers better this time around, without compromising the 321 case shape—for instance by materials used, or assembly thereof. As far as I understand the (recently extended) warranty similarly applies to the new Ed White, so rest assured this new release is much more durable than the original.

That's surprising. The Legal department relying on Engineering to do its job to protect the interests of the company. 😀

krogerfoot · Jan 9, 2020

Walrus
And the jury will disregard.

Well, juries are unpredictable.

Archer · Jan 9, 2020

queriver
A question for the lawyers: if your employer (watch coy) released a new watch with known deficiencies in the case design that results in sub optimal protection for its chrono pushers, how would you advise the company to protect itself during and after the warranty period? In the specific instance the watch company knew about the problem years ago and changed the design and now they are going back to the original design. For those that don’t know what watch we're talking about, it’s the new 321 Ed White.

The entire premise of this question is faulty. The company is already protected, because if someone hits the watch hard enough to damage the pushers, or really anything happens to them short of them falling off on their own, it's not a warranty repair.

JwRosenthal · Jan 9, 2020

Archer
The entire premise of this question is faulty. The company is already protected, because if someone hits the watch hard enough to damage the pushers, or really anything happens to them short of them falling off on their own, it's not a warranty repair.

This is what I was thinking in regards to the question- almost none of my vintage chronos have an asymmetrical design like the Speedy for crown/pusher protection, and those pushers are out there for the snappin’. Now, I assume Omega saw the need to revise the case design to add protection since their watches were being popularized as a rugged sport watch, but I don’t think changing the reissue design back to one that is more vulnerable to potential damage makes them liable for any damage incurred by the user.

SpikiSpikester · Jan 9, 2020

in practice 28 years, commercial and employment / labor litigation, international projects, trade secret protection, etc, etc.

...and the 321 question is dinner party question, not a serious legal question 😜

queriver · Jan 9, 2020

SpikiSpikester
in practice 28 years, commercial and employment / labor litigation, international projects, trade secret protection, etc, etc.

...and the 321 question is dinner party question, not a serious legal question 😜

Thanks, feel free to use my question at your next dinner party. 😜

pongster · Jan 10, 2020

In practice for 18 years. Corporate/Special Projects and Litigation/Dispute Resolution.

But i consider myself a semi retired lawyer and a full time ballet dad (for my two girls).

dx009 · Jan 17, 2020

Posting here on suggestion of @JwRosenthal 2 things:

1. https://www.rescapement.com/blog/rolex-is-suing-la-californienne-for-its-custom-counterfeit-watches (I can't figure out who's in the wrong here, Rolex or the company)

2. A year or two ago I put up a discontinued (for a few years) Doxa Quartz watch that was in as new condition with box and card on eBay. It gained lots of attention (views and people saving the listing) and at some point after a few weeks my listing gets cancelled by eBay and they message me saying that they've received a complaint, supposedly, from some Doxa representative and they canceled the listing and that I'm no longer allowed to re-list it. The weird thing is that their motivation for this was very ambiguous and generic. Something like "it might be a fake". The watch was about 200-300$ in price so not an enormous value. Moreso if I remember correctly it had been sold only in select markets but I was part of those markets. The watch under no circumstance was a fake, nothing about it was fake, inside and out. The box and card were legit as well. The eBay program that does this actually has a name but I really can't remember it now. It's an abbreviation. I tried contacting them asking for more details and trying to communicate to them that I'm not selling anything fake or "dubious" but they didn't care.