The lawyers' thread: discussion on watch-related legal matters

Lotus_Eater8815 · Dec 18, 2019

That Rolex flipping thread and controlling after market sales brings to mind a popular ad: “you never actually own a —-, you merely look after it for the next generation.” 🙄 There you go, Rolex’s cause of action founded on a Newsweek ad I used to see a lot as a kid.

- appeals court attorney
- based in the Philippines
- into my 2nd year as a member of the Bar
- interested (but not an authority on) constitutional law

Spruce · Dec 18, 2019

Dan S
”I'm not an attorney, but........ the creative process is important, and it happens at all times ... when I'm hiking, lying in bed, in the shower. Often I'll come back from a jog and rush to the computer to capture ideas or writing that I composed in my head while I was out. ......

Perhaps you should have been an attorney. You’ve just described my defence cross-examination planning technique.............. 😀

Stretch44 · Dec 18, 2019

jaspers
Trust me, the thing I most happily left behind when leaving private practice was the concept of billable hours. Timing your work in six-minute blocks completely killed all creative thinking for me. It's mind-numbing, and ridden with perverse incentives. Clients don't take my call: SIX MINUTES. Sending two instead of one email: 2 TIMES SIX MINUTES. Having to listen to rambling voicemail from client: SIX MINUTES.

Oh man, this made me laugh out loud in my office. I love my job and being in private practice, but this is so true! hahah

krogerfoot · Dec 18, 2019

jaspers
Trust me, the thing I most happily left behind when leaving private practice was the concept of billable hours. Timing your work in six-minute blocks completely killed all creative thinking for me. It's mind-numbing, and ridden with perverse incentives.

Dan S
In my day job, the creative process is important, and it happens at all times ... when I'm hiking, lying in bed, in the shower. Often I'll come back from a jog and rush to the computer to capture ideas or writing that I composed in my head while I was out.

JwRosenthal
When I’m asked how long does something take to get done, my answer is usually- it takes as long as it takes.

It took me way too long to get a clear view of how to value and charge for work, and now that I'm the boss/HMFIC, a new challenge is to keep daily chores from taking up all the bandwidth. I'm glad my line of work largely doesn't bill by the hour and that I can explain to clients that the cost of a piece of work is not just the time spent putting it into tangible form, but also the years of expertise and execution that brought it to that point.

JwRosenthal · Dec 18, 2019

krogerfoot
It took me way too long to get a clear view of how to value and charge for work, and now that I'm the boss/HMFIC, a new challenge is to keep daily chores from taking up all the bandwidth. I'm glad my line of work largely doesn't bill by the hour and that I can explain to clients that the cost of a piece of work is not just the time spent putting it into tangible form, but also the years of expertise and execution that brought it to that point.

Why is there no standing applause emoji!! 👍 ::psy::

I guess that has to work.

JwRosenthal · Dec 18, 2019

Also- unfortunately during the billable project excercise- there was never a slot in the time sheets for “dealing with stupid people” or “putting out your fires” or “this-what I am doing right now which is taking up valuable time”

Screwbacks · Dec 18, 2019

imagine if all lawyer-members of OF will argue in this forum which watch is better.😁

queriver · Dec 18, 2019

Screwbacks
imagine if all lawyer-members of OF will argue in this forum which watch is better.😁

Yes please. But no arguments about which watch company has the best warranty T&Cs - that is manna only for insomniacs.

Spruce · Dec 19, 2019

I’d like to think we’d advise a settlement

Archer · Dec 19, 2019

JwRosenthal
Also- unfortunately during the billable project excercise- there was never a slot in the time sheets for “dealing with stupid people” or “putting out your fires” or “this-what I am doing right now which is taking up valuable time”

My first engineering job was in industrial engineering...for those who don't know what that is, it's about planning tasks, evaluating efficiencies, etc. (a.k.a. time study and motion study). For me it was a foot in the door, and although I had certainly taken these subjects as part of my studies, it was not really a subject that I enjoyed. The time in that department was what I often describe as "the longest 4 months of my career."

Since the department was all about time, we were required to keep track of our time to the 0.1 if an hour (6 minutes) every day, just like others here described. I was putting in a line item of 6 minutes that said "keeping track of my time" which was I suppose my way of rebelling, since this had absolutely nothing to do with billing...our department was all salaried people and we were not charging our time to other departments or anything based on this...but I was told to stop doing that, so I had to roll it into some other task. To me that in itself made a mockery of the whole thing...

About 2 months in I approached the plant engineering manager and told him I was interested in a position in his department, and 2 months later I was moved. Spent the next 23 years there....

Lotus_Eater8815 · Dec 19, 2019

This is why private practice never interested me. Apart from the fact that name partners usually get the lions share in the firms; if you’re an independent, the usual clients are people who are only able to pay you in kind.

This is your life, and it’s ending six minutes at a time.

The first rule of Fight Club is...

JwRosenthal · Dec 19, 2019

Obviously whomever set up the 6 minute system was basing it on their sex life ::rimshot::

Lotus_Eater8815 · Dec 19, 2019

JwRosenthal
Obviously whomever set up the 6 minute system was basing it on their sex life

If you have congress with your client, is that considered billable hours? Lol

jaspers · Dec 19, 2019

JwRosenthal
I can totally see the creative process in law (researching, preparing a brief or argument) being a absolute creative process that requires both sides of your brain working simultaneously.

Dan S
Since consulting is just a side-gig for me, it's not a big deal, but if it were my bread-and-butter, I can see how it would create incentives for me to change my work process. No thinking allowed unless I'm sitting behind my desk with the timer running.

krogerfoot
I'm glad my line of work largely doesn't bill by the hour and that I can explain to clients that the cost of a piece of work is not just the time spent putting it into tangible form, but also the years of expertise and execution that brought it to that point.

Agreed, but I should stress: it's not all bad. Having to log billables made me much better at organizing my time and prioritizing tasks throughout the day. I benefit from that skill still today—probably also because I'm surrounded by career academics now who tend to suck at organizing and prioritizing their work 😎

pongster · Dec 19, 2019

JwRosenthal
Obviously whomever set up the 6 minute system was basing it on their sex life

I thought that was a two minute thing. 😀

TimeODanaos · Dec 19, 2019

jaspers
Agreed, but I should stress: it's not all bad. Having to log billables made me much better at organizing my time and prioritizing tasks throughout the day. I benefit from that skill still today—probably also because I'm surrounded by career academics now who tend to suck at organizing and prioritizing their work 😎

So true... I spend some time serving pro bono on school boards of one kind or another. Only last month, I was at an evening meeting where the whole final third of the agenda was postponed sine die after a mere two and a half hours 🥱. It would have carried on, only the building supervisor came in to remind the chair supposedly "running" this epic that the automated security system was preparing to lock us in for the rest of the night. If anyone produces a BS-sonnerie complication that reacts to hot air, I'm happy to put my name down. 😉

Spruce · Dec 19, 2019

Just to clarify this 6 minute thing (law billing not sex), because of unscrupulous lawyers (I know some of you will think that’s a tautology) regulatory professional bodies introduced strict and enforceable regulations which oblige lawyers (and others) to speak with the client (or write) or to some other party, to make a note of what’s been said/agreed, place it on the paper/e-file, log into the firm’s time recording software, and enter the time spent and after all of that .... think about where the case/matter is going.

That’s 6 minutes please 😀

jaspers · Dec 19, 2019

Spruce
unscrupulous lawyers (I know some of you will think that’s a tautology)

HOW DARE YOU! NO SUCH THING! 😁

Shabbaz · Dec 19, 2019

What's the difference between a good lawyer and a bad lawyer?
A bad lawyer makes your case drag on for years. A good lawyer makes it last even longer.

Shabbaz · Dec 19, 2019

I'm also a lawyer by the way... It's not my fault...