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The Illinois Pocketwatch Thread

  1. TexOmega Oct 3, 2020

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    Illinois private label
    Model 3 Columbia grade
    Transitional (5th pinion) therefore SW/KW
    Circa 1881
    GW Ladd case


    78B859F5-2387-4BA4-AE3F-B2242B590B5D.jpeg

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    Triple hinge
    DSC04995.JPG

    DSC05006.JPG


    Triple hinge.JPG
     
    Edited Oct 3, 2020
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  2. Waltesefalcon Oct 3, 2020

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    That case is gorgeous.
     
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  3. TexOmega Oct 3, 2020

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    GW Ladd was the Man


    1897_Apr_14_Ladd.jpg Ladd Watch Case - Jewelry Circular - Feb. 17, 1892.jpg
     
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  4. Canuck Oct 3, 2020

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    When Illinois decided to introduce an open-faced, 18-size watch, they didn’t have a movement suitable for the open faced case. The model 2 was designed for a hunter case, and was a transitional key wind which could be wound either with a key, or by the stem. Fitting the model 2 movement into an open faced case would Involve turning the movement 90°, and making a new dial, and it would leave the seconds hand in the wrong place. On the model 3, by adding a fifth pinion to the model 2, 180° across the third wheel from the fourth wheel (which carries the seconds hand on the model 2), they came up with the model 3, commonly called the “fifth pinion” model. The second hand is a little closer to the centre of the dial on a model 3, as compared to the model 2. Nice watch!
     
    Edited Oct 3, 2020
  5. TexOmega Oct 4, 2020

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    Santa Fe Special
    Model 9 Grade 806
    16s 21j
    circa 1922


    5F84F683-98F4-4634-AE1B-F5CFCE54AE16.jpeg

    21 jewels.JPG


    Gold filled case.JPG


    Gold screws.JPG
     
  6. Canuck Oct 4, 2020

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    This is a model 2, grade 4 Illinois Railroader. 18-size, 11 jewels, transitional key winder (can be wound by stem or key), hunter case, circa 1887. I am told the Railroader is the only Illinois ever produced that had an image engraved on the plates. The image is a hand-engraved rendering of a wood burning locomotive. One of 4,500 made.

    C4D1A878-2DEE-4676-9CD4-B5A3F3FBCA72.jpeg FFF81CFF-5336-477C-BEA1-636DE72AA1AE.jpeg EAD4BF8B-35A4-47E7-A257-940B542071B9.jpeg 295137E9-2C4E-4F17-A8E0-C9AAC6413FCB.jpeg 6C4B97B6-BCB4-439C-9039-199527B91DD7.jpeg
     
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  7. Fritz genuflects before the mighty quartzophobe Oct 4, 2020

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    He was also a backer for a Mr.Lincoln for public office.

    a relationship that shows up later in some A.Lincoln model watches from Illinois.

    if you have a Sangamo electrical meter on the back of your home there’s a direct line back to Illinois as well.
     
  8. Canuck Oct 4, 2020

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    Also, if you have ever seen BUNN coffee maker equipment in restaurants, same family I understand.
     
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  9. Waltesefalcon Oct 14, 2020

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    My great granddad's model 6 grade 89, made in 1917. He worked on the railroad for a time and this was apparently the watch he carried, even though it's not a rail road grade watch. This is the watch that got me into pocket watches watches in general. I always had a fascination with it and tried to get my dad to let me carry it when I was a kid. He never did but for my 8th birthday he bought me a Westclox Pocket Ben that I personally proudly carried until it died.

    This watch has lived a hard life, it was carried for years daily, my dad was wearing it when he was in a motorcycle wreck, breaking the crystal, destroying the minute hand, breaking the staff. It sat for several years in a box until my dad finally let me have it when I was thirteen. I took it apart, doing a terrible job of it as I went, figured out the staff was broken and decided it was a lost cause. A few years later I met a watchmaker and she got it back in order for me. It seriously needs a cleaning now but I never carry it so I tend to procrastinate instead of servicing it.
     
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  10. 140dave Oct 20, 2020

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    I like some of the older models you guys are showing, keep it up!
    Me, like I have mentioned, I like the 60 Hour models that are from 1924-1932. This is the end of the Illinois Era, the transition from the sale to Hamilton began in 1928. This was (IMO) the pinnacle of watchmaking in the US before pressed jewels and Swiss movements became the norm.

    So let’s talk 60 hour movements.
    60 Hour moments came in 3 different jewel configurations, 19j, 21j and 23j all of which were Railroad Approved.
    Additionally each jewel type also had variants with in the line. Identified variants are known as Type I, Type II and Type III movements. For both 21 and 23 jeweled movements there are also sub variants of Type IIIa and Type IIIb. Commonly seen as TI, TII, TIII in listings. The differences between these I will show below in 23j versions, same points for 21 and 19j models just different jewel numbers.

    The 60hr 23j Type I (TI)
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    Marked “60” next to “motor barrel” only, no other notations of 60 Hour on the bridge.

    The 60hr 23j Type II (TII)
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    Still has “60” marked by Motor Barrel but now added “60 Hour” above “Bunn Special” on the bridge.

    60hr 23j Type III also called TIIIA
    F8D2B1EA-0783-4AFF-B2DE-C87966432599.jpeg
    This is the last model produced by Illinois before the Hamilton takeover and the most common. “60” mark has been removed from “motor barrel” and is now only on the top of the bridge.

    60hr 23j Type IIIb
    27B1DB34-3B79-4038-863B-471550EC5B9D.jpeg This is the first Illinois model produced by Hamilton. Looks the same as a TIII except on the bridge where it changes from “Illinois Watch Co” to simply “Illinois Watch” since the Illinois Watch Company no longer existed. This variation is only on 21j and 23j movements as Hamilton discontinued production of and never produced the 19j movement.

    There you go, 60hour TI TII and TIII in detail. A long posting but hopefully helpful to someone, somewhere, someday. 11 variants for you to chase down. Happy Hunting!
     
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  11. ebrohman Oct 20, 2020

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    Hey Dave, that's a really nice collection of Bunn specials! I'm in the market for a Bunn/60hr/motor barrel, especially with a Montgomery dial. If you ever could see yourself parting with one, or trading one, I'm interested!
     
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  12. 140dave Oct 20, 2020

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    [QUOTE="ebrohman, post: 1629334, member: 29784" I'm in the market for a Bunn/60hr/motor barrel, especially with a Montgomery dial.” [/QUOTE]
    I haven’t even begun discussing dial and case variants yet but since you mention, here are 4 different types of Montgomery dials for Bunn Specials.
    AF0AD2DF-8CF3-4B30-B88C-EA7BDDB2D7D5.jpeg Clockwise (of course) from top:
    “Marked” 23 Jewel Montgomery (TIII and 163)
    “Arrows-Out” Montgomery (TIII and 161/163)
    “Arrows-in Big 6” Montgomery, very rare (TI and TII)
    “Arrows-in” Montgomery (TI, TII, also A.Lincoln and earlier Illinois models)
     
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  13. Waltesefalcon Oct 20, 2020

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    Nice collection Dave. A 60hour, 23J, is one that I always keep an eye out for.
     
  14. 140dave Oct 21, 2020

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    Wow! Look at what is on eBay. For those that don’t know this is about the rarest of the rare for Illinois. 161B with pressed jewels, under 50 thought to have been made, I’ve seen 2 for sale in the past 10 years. Check the description, seller has no clue what they have. Up to $5800 in first few hours. Watch this one!
    BCCF37D9-0EEB-4B26-BF4D-BAFA072D9B8E.png
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/114475394582
     
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  15. Waltesefalcon Oct 23, 2020

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    I'm watching that one. If I was a millionaire it'd be mine.
     
  16. DaveK Yoda of Yodelers Feb 4, 2021

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    This 1929 railroader was talked about in it's FS thread (Again, thanks @140dave !), but I figured it also belonged in this thread as well.

    DEAFAABC-EA93-4FD7-8EA7-24B756BB2784.jpeg

    Borrowing heavily from 140Dave’s research… In collector’s circles, this one is known as a Type IIIB (TIIIB). Earlier variants will all have “Illinois Watch Co” signed on the movement, but this was one of the few TIII movements made after the 1928 takeover by Hamilton, so the movement is signed “Illinois Watch”, without the “Co”. There were very few of these produced, around 1200, before they moved to the “161” movements from 1929-1932. This watch comes from the final run before the 161 movement was introduced.

    ED0981FB-B55A-445C-AA09-DAC8DD75935E.jpeg

    I was particularly drawn to the near perfect factory model 173 case, the rare 14k white gold filled model. All case part serial #s match, which allows you to determine if someone put pieces together to make a better looking case.

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    The enamel dial is a pleasure to look at, marked Illinois Bunn Special, and then 21 Jewel and 60 Hour above the sub second register. Blued hands are very camera shy, but I finally got them :cool:

    5F3F1532-E472-4940-A961-020BA03FD97C.jpeg
     
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  17. Jura Mar 5, 2021

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    Hi, here's my Illinois. Please for comments and informations. Thank you
    Illinois 1.jpg Illinois 2.jpg Illinois 3.jpg Illinois 4.jpg Illinois 5.jpg
     
  18. 140dave Mar 5, 2021

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    Well, to start with, a solid gold case always impresses!
    The Movement is a 21 Jewel 60 Hour Type III most likely from about 1928. Pre Hamilton take-over but not by much, this is the last 60hr 21j movement type Illinois produced before the sale.

    Dial and hands are not original. Should be either plum or blue hands (borderline on the changeover so could go either way) and should have an Arrows-out Illinois Dial with Illinois on a curve instead of straightline like yours.

    Your dial is a Gothic Canadian RR which has its own appeal but meant for an earlier watch from 1918-1924 approx.
     
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  19. DaveK Yoda of Yodelers Mar 23, 2021

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    Sure, I’m watching too much YouTube. But if I wasn’t, I wouldn’t have come across this. A circa 1910 Illinois pocket watch movement used as a time-lock for a bank safe :cool:

     
  20. Waltesefalcon Mar 24, 2021

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