The entire wooden interior of Notre Dame Cathedral has been lost

Posts
13,504
Likes
53,065
I feel for Paris. Rough few years .. It will be rebuilt. It is a magnificent edifice, but I agree ... what cannot be rebuilt are the living treasures we are loosing to climate change, horrible resource management and foolish traditional folk/placebo medicine beliefs.
 
Posts
2,444
Likes
9,905
Well, as somebody who has been actively involved in historical preservation, I hate to see such a beautiful building with such a rich history so badly damaged, but your point about "A loss such as this shows us what we truly value in this world" is an interesting one.

I couldn't help noticing that, already, wealthy business men have pledged millions of euros to help fund the restoration. Amazing at a time when 'poor people' everywhere are having to cut back or go without, there seems to be no difficulty finding massive amounts of immediate cash for the 'new church roof'.

And people continue to collect watches too.
That doesn’t mean they’re not involved in charitable organizations.

I intentionally avoided rating what’s most disastrous in our world. There is an unending supply of misery but only one Notre Dame and it obviously means a lot to those who are donating.
 
Posts
1,301
Likes
2,576
Agree with everyone's sentiment here that it is sad to see monuments of such significance go up in flames for, most probably, an avoidable reason.

The below article copied from The Times, if accurate, is an indictment on politicians and bureaucrats. It will be interesting to find out whether the timber roof structure was sprinklered and smoke detectors were installed:

State’s decades of neglect blamed for Notre Dame’s destruction

By CHARLES BREMNER, THE TIMES, 8:45PM APRIL 16, 2019

Lovers of Notre Dame deplored the politics and bureaucracy that have held up the much-needed restoration of the most visited monument in Europe.

“The means were not provided to maintain it,” said Marie-Claude Gauvard, a medieval historian and author of a book on the great Gothic cathedral. “The renovation work was finally started and it was high time, and perhaps a bit late,” she added.

As property of the state, like all French churches since 1905, the cathedral has been deprived of more than minimum government funding to cope with crumbling stone, a collapsing roof and rotting gargoyles. Funds for repairs have been arriving belatedly, thanks to a campaign over the past year by the Catholic Church to raise €150 million from sponsors in the US and elsewhere.

Work was held up because renovation came under the orders of too many institutions, including the French state, Paris city council, the ministry of historic monuments and the Catholic archdiocese of Paris, said Ms Gauvard.

Stephane Bern, a television presenter who was appointed by President Macron to raise funds for historic monuments, said today that he felt anger. “Notre Dame is part of our history and of the French nation. For me, a close friend is leaving us,” he said. The collapsing spire was “symptomatic of what we are living through - a society in which everything goes up in flames.”

He was bitter because Mr Macron last year blocked his demands to charge an entrance fee for visitors to the cathedral as the best way of financing repairs to the ravages inflicted by the 14 million people who go there each year.

Most other great churches in Europe, from Westminster Abbey to the monuments of Venice, charge entrance fees and sometimes quite high ones, said Mr Bern. Mr Macron said there could be no question of charging people to visit public monuments, especially when he was trying to make museums free. “In 1905 there were millions of worshippers and a few thousand visitors at Notre Dame de Paris,” Mr Bern said recently. “Today there are 14 million tourists and a few thousand worshippers. How can you maintain the place in these conditions?” To keep the tourist monument operating, the cathedral employs 67 full-time staff. Electricity costs €800 daily, heating costs €1,000.

The state is paying no more than €40 million in the next decade because its coffers are low and because of fears of infringing secular values. Leftwing politicians have campaigned against spending on religious property at a time of spending cuts and the commitment to le laicite, the strict secularism that bars religion from public life.

Businesses shared politicians’ reticence to offer sponsorship. “They are very afraid of being accused of financing a religion and of contravening secularism,” said Andre Finot, the cathedral’s communications director. Recently he likened the crumbling cathedral to the empty facades maintained by Soviet Russia to impress foreigners and its own people. “It’s a bit like a Soviet decor - a restored facade with a ruin behind it,” he said.

No major restoration had been carried out since Eugene Viollet-le-Duc’s work in the mid-19th century. Behind the public areas lay desolation, said a report by the le Point news magazine last year. Wooden planks had been installed to cover holes in the roof. PVC tubing was sticking out from gutters from which gargoyles had fallen. “The old cathedral is falling into ruin,” it said. “Everywhere the stone is literally melting under attack from pollution. Your finger sticks into it like a lump of butter.”

The state defended itself last year, playing down the risks. “The cathedral is not going to collapse at all,” said Marie-Helene Didier, the official at the historic monuments department in charge of the renovation. “She is an old lady which has been undergoing the wear of time. We intervene before the disorder creates greater risks,” she said.
 
Posts
2,168
Likes
5,715
And people continue to collect watches too.
That doesn’t mean they’re not involved in charitable organizations.

I intentionally avoided rating what’s most disastrous in our world. There is an unending supply of misery but only one Notre Dame and it obviously means a lot to those who are donating.
Yes, I agree.It's a beautiful, historic, building and I'm sure it does mean a lot to them.👍

I come from an Irish Catholic family so I have some experience of how important these religious environments can be. Hopefully the Vatican will chip in a bit....... They've got deep pockets???😁 But then that would mean they would probably feel the need to dig into the compensation fund put aside to silence all the abused kids that have been in their care. (including my Mother back in 1930s Ireland). But being 'men of God' I'm sure they'll get their priorities right.
 
Posts
783
Likes
1,349
It was so sad to watch the fire yesterday. It will take them some time to rebuild, but I hope that they can keep the character of the cathedral intact. Unfortunately, I've never had the opportunity to visit, but hopefully the restoration will do it justice!
 
Posts
132
Likes
210
Would love to see them rebuild using the construction methods of the original time period(s). So much of the character of these old buildings comes from the fact that it was largely fashioned on-site by skilled craftsman. Even if they use modern equipment to hoist/position/fasten, it should be rebuilt largely in the way it was originally built IMHO...
 
Posts
169
Likes
175
I took a trip with my mom and brother to France last month and we were very fortunate to see the cathedral and attended a small after hours concert inside.

I’m not a practicing Catholic but regardless this is devastating to France and the world! The historical, religious, and cultural significance of the Notre Dame cathedral is indescribable.
 
Posts
3,045
Likes
14,193
I've read about the suggestion to replace the wood with modern materials of glass and steel and composites to replace the roof and make it a more open, lighted experience. I think this would be beautiful. I've been to so many cathedrals in europe and wished the same thing in each...I wish they weren't so dark and dreary. I think its an opportunity to celebrate humanity and bring light to the magnificent structure.
Edited:
 
Posts
17,624
Likes
36,857
Having visited there a few times over the years, I was shocked/saddened to see what happened.
I have no religious beliefs, and in my eyes, it was simply a magnificent piece of historical architecture that has been lost, maybe forever.
The world seems to have gone into sympathy overdrive and people are pledging immense amounts of money to restore the building.

I didn't see the same outpouring of concern with the recent destructions of Nimrud and Palmyra, and many other ancient and historical sites.
 
Posts
13,504
Likes
53,065
I've read about the suggestion to replace the wood with modern materials of glass and steel and composites to replace the roof and make it a more open lighted experience. I think this would be beautiful. I've been to so many cathedrals in europe and wished the same thing in each...I wish they weren't so dark and dreary. A little less solemn devotion, I think its time to celebrate and bring light to the magnificent structure.
Go to Sagrada Familia in Barcelona next visit. It is the cure for the dark, dreary BFC experience. Mrs S and I are BFC’d out.
 
Posts
1,440
Likes
3,774
So sad that in the 21 century we still can't prevent such a thing from happening. It was on the "to see" list for next year....
Travel the world people and enjoy what we have now, because it might not be there tomorrow.
 
Posts
2,408
Likes
6,951
I've been to so many cathedrals in europe and wished the same thing in each...I wish they weren't so dark and dreary.

In fact, the gothic architecture did exactly that. By using using buttresses and flying buttresses, the architects were able to put large windows instead of thick walls. These were usually filled with stained glass to tell the religious story. What you are proposing would make the stained glass less relevant because of the increased interior light. Often, the stained glass in old churches is very dirty and blocks much of the light. Dirty walls also absorbs a lot of the available light. This gives the dark dreary appearance you refer too. The newly renovated Sainte Chapelle in Paris, where the glass is clean, does't evoke dreariness.
 
Posts
13,504
Likes
53,065
+1 on St. Chapelle... just a couple of blocks away. Sadly it’s going to get huge traffic now. Was a hidden gem.
 
Posts
16,856
Likes
47,862
Would love to see them rebuild using the construction methods of the original time period(s). So much of the character of these old buildings comes from the fact that it was largely fashioned on-site by skilled craftsman. Even if they use modern equipment to hoist/position/fasten, it should be rebuilt largely in the way it was originally built IMHO...

Rebuilt with products bought from China and tools also from China by construction workers wearing cloths made in Bangladesh, no doubt in today’s society 😉
 
Posts
3,861
Likes
6,577
I wonder if it can be rebuilt like it was. I’m not talking skill, but raw materials. How many trees are left that are big enough to recreate what was lost?
 
Posts
17,624
Likes
36,857
In fact, the gothic architecture did exactly that. By using using buttresses and flying buttresses, the architects were able to put large windows instead of thick walls. These were usually filled with stained glass to tell the religious story. What you are proposing would make the stained glass less relevant because of the increased interior light. Often, the stained glass in old churches is very dirty and blocks much of the light. Dirty walls also absorbs a lot of the available light. This gives the dark dreary appearance you refer too. The newly renovated Sainte Chapelle in Paris, where the glass is clean, does't evoke dreariness.


Exactly. It was a marvel of architectural engineering, being able to have immense height and broad arches, all held together by weight (and buttresses) which allowed huge amounts of light to enter the spaces.
 
Posts
2,761
Likes
4,359
Well, as somebody who has been actively involved in historical preservation, I hate to see such a beautiful building with such a rich history so badly damaged, but your point about "A loss such as this shows us what we truly value in this world" is an interesting one.

I don't mean to be needlessly controversial at a time of material and cultural loss but it has to be said:

I couldn't help noticing that, already, wealthy business men have pledged millions of euros to help fund the restoration. Amazing at a time when 'poor people' everywhere are having to cut back or go without, there seems to be no difficulty finding massive amounts of immediate cash for the 'new church roof'.

The catholic church is worth around 30 billion dollars, I think they should pay for their own bloody church to be fixed.
 
Posts
13,504
Likes
53,065
I wonder if it can be rebuilt like it was. I’m not talking skill, but raw materials. How many trees are left that are big enough to recreate what was lost?
Answer: those big oaks are long gone so no....