The Dennison cased Omega thread....

5ecavalier · Jan 5, 2021

Hello,
I’m from France, this is my first post here and I’m very enthousiastic about talking with Omega experts and lovers!
I have what seems to be a military issued « deck watch » with Omega DDR 19´´´ 23j chronometer movement. The cased is a Dennison silver case, with wooden carrying box. Doing some research on internet, the deck watch I have been able to find have most of times an inner case signed with the watch brand (for example Ulysse Nardin, Vacheron Constantin...) and may have wooden carrying box sometimes by Dennison.
Do you have any information about this kind of configuration (both inner and outer case from Dennison)?
I’m thinking about asking Omega from an extract form the archives. Do you think it’s a good idea and could bring usefull information about this watch?
Below are the pictures of the watch:

Thank you in advance for your help!

padders · Jan 5, 2021

1939 hallmark, tallies with the 1940 date in the box. Some sort of government issue piece. The movement serial is from circa 1911 though so it’s a weird combination.

5ecavalier · Jan 5, 2021

padders
1939 hallmark, tallies with the 1940 date in the box. Some sort of government issue piece. The movement serial is from circa 1911 though so it’s a weird combination.

Very interesting ! Could you please tell me how the hallmark refers to 1939 ? If I’m not wrong the movement has been produced in 1911. Do you think Omega may has kept it until late 1930s, or the original case has been changed between the first delivery and the late 1930s ?

size11s · Jan 5, 2021

Some of the government records for servicing military chronometers was discussed over on MWR recently. I can't remember who exactly found the records but it would certainly be worth posting over there. Fabulous timepiece, congratulations.

Edit: This might be of interest. https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/sho...tches-of-the-RAF-and-Royal-Navy&highlight=hs2

5ecavalier · Jan 5, 2021

size11s
Some of the government records for servicing military chronometers was discussed over on MWR recently. I can't remember who exactly found the records but it would certainly be worth posting over there. Fabulous timepiece, congratulations.

Thank you very much for your advise. I submitted for registration, as soon as a moderator validates it I’ll write the post there!

François Pépin · Jan 5, 2021

From the Birmingham assay tables I have read, the P letter would here refer to 1914-1915. So it rather matches the date of the movement. But I am an expert about Dennison cases and this kind of watches!

padders · Jan 6, 2021

The P used does look more like the ‘39 version rather than the longer 1914 one but I agree it’s possible as the letters can sometimes vary from the online lists in the flesh. It’s worth getting an extract. It would make more sense for it to be all circa WW1, unless it was recased when reissued. What is the date on the box?

size11s · Jan 6, 2021

Surprisingly, there isn't an Omega HS2 mentioned in Konrad Knirim's great book. I did a quick search on MWR and there is lots of great research by Terry Andrews and Mark Wilson (among others) on the archive of the Royal Observatory at Greenwich and the workshops at Herstmoceaux Castle where these chronometers were regularly serviced. I am sure with some digging and asking in the right places you will find your time piece. This is an interesting read and shows how diligent they were with these important bits of kit. I think the workshop was moved to Bradford on Avon circa 1940 out of the way of bombs, it is mentioned somewhere in the article below.
http://www.royalobservatorygreenwich.org/articles.php?article=1278

5ecavalier · Jan 6, 2021

padders
The P used does look more like the ‘39 version rather than the longer 1914 one but I agree it’s possible as the letters can sometimes vary from the online lists in the flesh. It’s worth getting an extract. It would make more sense for it to be all circa WW1, unless it was recased when reissued. What is the date on the box?

Date in the wooden box is october 1943 (can’t read the day).

5ecavalier · Jan 6, 2021

size11s
Surprisingly, there isn't an Omega HS2 mentioned in Konrad Knirim's great book. I did a quick search on MWR and there is lots of great research by Terry Andrews and Mark Wilson (among others) on the archive of the Royal Observatory at Greenwich and the workshops at Herstmoceaux Castle where these chronometers were regularly serviced. I am sure with some digging and asking in the right places you will find your time piece. This is an interesting read and shows how diligent they were with these important bits of kit. I think the workshop was moved to Bradford on Avon circa 1940 out of the way of bombs, it is mentioned somewhere in the article below.
http://www.royalobservatorygreenwich.org/articles.php?article=1278

Very exciting ! Thank you so much for those informations and following steps to move forward !

padders · Jan 6, 2021

5 5ecavalier
Date in the wooden box is october 1943 (can’t read the day).

Well maybe it was a WW1 production watch that was reissued in 1943. It certainly seems to be a ships chronometer or similar so is an interesting piece whatever its backstory.

YYTIN · Feb 16, 2022

Hi there,

Here are the 2 Dennison cases I have (ref 13322). the caliber inside is the 30T2. Both watches are from 1947 (above the 11 100 000 movement number).

If I understood correctly this Dennison reference is mainly a UK case. Dennison has some great history but those 40s cases are nothing special, aren't they ? I bought the watches for the Omega 30T2 and dials first, I was happy to find that they were Dennison cases, but having them in hand does not make feel like I have something so special, they are 33.5mm and appears quite light to me. Let me know if I am missing something.

I just read this article from another forum :
https://www.watchprosite.com/omega/dennison-omegas--a-potted-history/677.720488.4706578/
Interesting reading IMO

Sherbie · Feb 17, 2022

YYTIN
Hi there,

Here are the 2 Dennison cases I have (ref 13322). the caliber inside is the 30T2. Both watches are from 1947 (above the 11 100 000 movement number).

If I understood correctly this Dennison reference is mainly a UK case. Dennison has some great history but those 40s cases are nothing special, aren't they ? I bought the watches for the Omega 30T2 and dials first, I was happy to find that they were Dennison cases, but having them in hand does not make feel like I have something so special, they are 33.5mm and appears quite light to me. Let me know if I am missing something.

I just read this article from another forum :
https://www.watchprosite.com/omega/dennison-omegas--a-potted-history/677.720488.4706578/
Interesting reading IMO

You have to remember that the UK was on its knees after the war - food was still being rationed, supplies of almost everything were limited, and few could afford nice things like watches.

i have the same Dennison ref, but in 9K gold case with 1947 Birmingham hallmark - a nice little watch, but i have always suspected that its a redial

comments welcomed please

cheers paul

padders · Feb 17, 2022

Dennison gold cases are typically heavier and better built than the Swiss equivalent of the day. The quality advantages are less obvious on steel models, though the stainless steel alloys used in watch cases were a British development so in some instances up until 1945 at least Dennison made a superior example vs the Swiss equivalents. Post war everyone used similar alloys so that was negated. Staybrite and the similar Denisteel patents were British. Initially the Swiss brands either used these or eventually found ways round the patents

YYTIN · Feb 17, 2022

Hi @Sherbie & @padders

You're right putting my 47 watches in the UK context of that time. Interesting to learn that there has been a change in the alloys used prior and after the war. And I was completely unaware of the fact that the Staybrite was also a British patent. I understand better now why some collectors were focusing on those UK cases.

I will keep this in mind now, especially if I find a Dennison case from pre-war or on gold cases (but this can rapidly go out of my reach). Thanks for the information shared.

(Oh and by the way, you have a nice watch Paul. I'm no specialist of Redial but if this one, it is a nicely done job).

size11s · Feb 17, 2022

The Dennison 13322 case was very much a utility case for Dennison and was in production from the late 1930's up until circa 1965 (seen casing a Longines mvt), which is very near the end of Dennison's existence as a business. The earliest I have seen are silver cased Omegas from circa 1939/40, these are rare and only seem to be very early, I have seen 3. Although more Omegas are seen in the case than any other brand I have also seen Longines, SmithS, Tissot cal 27, Movado 3x calendar cal 475 (gold), IWC cal 89 (gold) and Ollivant & Botsford AS1130 (gold).

I think it's success as a case design comes from it's classic, simple looks and fexibility as a 3 piece case with 2 different case backs to cater for centre secs or sub secs. It's obviously not a top notch case but the balance of flexibility, quality and value kept it in production for a very long time.

YYTIN your 2 watches look really nice.

Plees · Feb 17, 2022

Here’s my Dennison

YYTIN · Feb 17, 2022

size11s
The Dennison 13322 case was very much a utility case for Dennison and was in production from the late 1930's up until circa 1965 (seen casing a Longines mvt), which is very near the end of Dennison's existence as a business. The earliest I have seen are silver cased Omegas from circa 1939/40, these are rare and only seem to be very early, I have seen 3. Although more Omegas are seen in the case than any other brand I have also seen Longines, SmithS, Tissot cal 27, Movado 3x calendar cal 475 (gold), IWC cal 89 (gold) and Ollivant & Botsford AS1130 (gold).

I think it's success as a case design comes from it's classic, simple looks and fexibility as a 3 piece case with 2 different case backs to cater for centre secs or sub secs. It's obviously not a top notch case but the balance of flexibility, quality and value kept it in production for a very long time.

YYTIN your 2 watches look really nice.

Thanks for the compliment and the additional infos ! Makes a lot of sense.
It's funny as the information rather confirm that this case is not in itself very premium but I now feel like I appreciate it more having all the info that you've shared here. Appreciate getting those. Thanks

OllieOnTheRocks · Feb 17, 2022

I'll play - here's my latest Dennison:

padders · Feb 17, 2022

size11s
The Dennison 13322 case was very much a utility case for Dennison and was in production from the late 1930's up until circa 1965 (seen casing a Longines mvt), which is very near the end of Dennison's existence as a business. The earliest I have seen are silver cased Omegas from circa 1939/40, these are rare and only seem to be very early, I have seen 3. Although more Omegas are seen in the case than any other brand I have also seen Longines, SmithS, Tissot cal 27, Movado 3x calendar cal 475 (gold), IWC cal 89 (gold) and Ollivant & Botsford AS1130 (gold).

I think it's success as a case design comes from it's classic, simple looks and fexibility as a 3 piece case with 2 different case backs to cater for centre secs or sub secs. It's obviously not a top notch case but the balance of flexibility, quality and value kept it in production for a very long time.

YYTIN your 2 watches look really nice.

What is the difference in caseback for centre or sub second? The Omega 260 and 280 series movements are the same thickness AFAIK, or is it just in the wording?

The Dennison cased Omega thread....

5ecavalier

padders

5ecavalier

size11s

5ecavalier

François Pépin

padders

size11s

5ecavalier

5ecavalier

padders

YYTIN

Sherbie

padders

YYTIN

size11s

Plees

YYTIN

OllieOnTheRocks

padders

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