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Swiss Customs Targetting Baselworld Attendees

Robert-Jan
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ioaniro ioaniro
Maybe something good will come out of this "journalism" (and yes that's sarcastic for trying to pass off as a profesional but not knowing the rules and then follow up with a click-bait article venting your stupidity and blaming others). Maybe the author could actually follow up on this and write a real article explaining to normal people how to handle traveling and customs with expensive watches? You know, something resembling professional journalism.

Just wow.
 
Braindrain
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Robert-Jan Robert-Jan
Just wow.

While not calling it professional journalism is a bit unfair, the writer does clearly whine in multiple places in the article.
 
gostang9
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Robert-Jan Robert-Jan
Just wow.
@Robert-Jan , I understand your reaction to way that comment was made, and I don't believe it was a nice comment to make. However, is there not some small truth inside the unnecessarily harsh way of saying it?

I'm curious, has the author really never considered the potential risk of carrying so many high value items across borders? It would seem highly unlikely that the thought never crossed his mind, and if it hadn't, I would wonder why not.

I live along a major international border and I travel a lot internationally for work. Perhaps my situation makes me more keenly aware than most of the danger crossing borders with high value goods. However, I would assume someone working for such a major blog/magazine as yours would have had at least some level of exposure... no?

(I understand that getting caught not being fully honest sometimes leads to a Custom agent penalizing someone to the 'full extent of the law'. And I see how this might feel unreasonable, but the reality is we run the risk of such punishment every time we don't fully disclose anything that could be 'questionable'.)
 
Robert-Jan
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gostang9 gostang9
@Robert-Jan , I understand your reaction to way that comment was made, and I don't believe it was a nice comment to make. However, is there not some small truth inside the unnecessarily harsh way of saying it?

I'm curious, has the author really never considered the potential risk of carrying so many high value items across borders? It would seem highly unlikely that the thought never crossed his mind, and if it hadn't, I would wonder why not.

I live along a major international border and I travel a lot internationally for work. Perhaps my situation makes me more keenly aware than most of the danger crossing borders with high value goods. However, I would assume someone working for such a major blog/magazine as yours would have had at least some level of exposure... no?

(I understand that getting caught not being fully honest sometimes leads to a Custom agent penalizing someone to the 'full extent of the law'. And I see how this might feel unreasonable, but the reality is we run the risk of such punishment every time we don't fully disclose anything that could be 'questionable'.)

I think Michael made it all clear in his article, he also writes that he has been wrong (and should have known). The article is about warning people for making the same mistake as he did. And trust me, LOTS of people bring their personal watches to Basel to wear during their different appointments, diners, events etc. So this article is warning them.

Whether it was clear to him that personal items are different from the requested ‘commercial goods’ is doubtful. In the end you should declare everything, including the laptop or camera that you will use during your work in Basel. Better is to get a Carnet form.

So, Mike made a mistake, wrote about it, including his experience during the whole event, blames only himself and warns others to take care of this. People who call him a bad journalist should take a brief moment to reflect if they never made a mistake in their professional life. Such a comment makes little sense.

If people (collectors, journalists) will think of his article next time they go outside EU (or vice versa) for a watch event, they know they should either just bring one or arrange a carnet form. If his article prevents someone from making the same mistake, it already did its job.

That’s all I have to say about it basically, it is not my article so I can’t really speak for Mike.
 
BlackTalon
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dialstatic dialstatic
Actually, I remember that when I went on a family vacation to Disney World when I was twelve, my ten year old sister was stopped by an officer at the Orlando airport. His sniffer dog had pointed out her luggage and the illegal contraband was a cheese sandwich 😀

No problems ensued other than him confiscating the sandwich, and my sister actually asked if she could feed it to the dog then 🙄
This story does not surprise me one bit. Disney wants you to only buy food from their vendor$. 😉
 
gostang9
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Robert-Jan Robert-Jan
I think Michael made it all clear in his article, he also writes that he has been wrong (and should have known). The article is about warning people for making the same mistake as he did. And trust me, LOTS of people bring their personal watches to Basel to wear during their different appointments, diners, events etc. So this article is warning them.

Whether it was clear to him that personal items are different from the requested ‘commercial goods’ is doubtful. In the end you should declare everything, including the laptop or camera that you will use during your work in Basel. Better is to get a Carnet form.

So, Mike made a mistake, wrote about it, including his experience during the whole event, blames only himself and warns others to take care of this. People who call him a bad journalist should take a brief moment to reflect if they never made a mistake in their professional life. Such a comment makes little sense.

If people (collectors, journalists) will think of his article next time they go outside EU (or vice versa) for a watch event, they know they should either just bring one or arrange a carnet form. If his article prevents someone from making the same mistake, it already did its job.

That’s all I have to say about it basically, it is not my article so I can’t really speak for Mike.
Thank you for the detailed and honest response. It is very clear to me, I understand better now and I applaud the openness and willingness of Mike to write about something personal and potentially embarrassing to help others. I would argue that certainly fits the definition of “journalism”, and goes actually above and beyond in my books.
 
MTROIS
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I will go on record to say: I absolutely learned A LOT from Michael’s experience. I had never heard of the carnet before and will now simply not bring my watches with me, especially not in Switzerland.
 
lillatroll
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If I am taking my personal possessions somewhere it would not have come to my mind to declare them as commercial goods. Why would it? They are mine, I don t declare my clothes or wallet or phone so why my watches?
On the very rare occasions that customs have stopped me other than for passport control it has felt a bit random as to how strict want to be. I once took a kilo of milk powder that I had put in clear plastic bags, no lables, through Heathrow. No one batteted an eye lid or asked what they were. In Zambia on the other hand, a bracelet made of leather which I bought in Zanzibar, brought 15 officers and a whole lot of hassle I didn' want. You would have thought I was trying to sneak an elephant out of the country in my hand luggage the way they were carrying on.
I feel the article will potentially save many others the same fate and found it to be one og the most useful articles I have read for a long time. Perhaps we should crowd fund his fine as a thank you.
 
ioaniro
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For the record, I only said that the article was unprofessional which it is, not that it was not needed. Is just badly written. It is why I suggested he should follow up with a real article about how to handle traveling with expensive watches (which this article isn't). The title is a click-bait tabloid title that only includes one true word - beware - the rest of the title is a rant (hence unprofessional). How many of you learned what to do when traveling in Switzerland or EU with expensive watches from that article? And how many learned much more from this thread? 😀
 
eugeneandresson
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ioaniro ioaniro
For the record, I only said that the article was unprofessional which it is, not that it was not needed. Is just badly written. It is why I suggested he should follow up with a real article about how to handle traveling with expensive watches (which this article isn't). The title is a click-bait tabloid title that only includes one true word - beware - the rest of the title is a rant (hence unprofessional). How many of you learned what to do when traveling in Switzerland or EU with expensive watches from that article? And how many learned much more from this thread? 😀

Why don't you write the article and get RJ to post it? It would be a really short article, titled 'Carnet', and have text like 'To avoid any customs disputes travel with all personal possessions fully declared in a carnet, including all 17 pairs of underpants'.

We can agree to disagree about 'professionalism'. Your comments were uncalled for, no need to continue.

If you followed the thread there was only one guy who knew about 'Carnets', and thanks to him, we are enlightened, so it would appear that most of the world did not / do not know about it, including journalists who in this case are fellow watch enthusiasts and like the rest of us, have traveled with their personal items in the past, and will continue to do so. There is no law against owning multiple of anything, nor travelling with personal belongings.
 
Omegafanman
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gostang9 gostang9
@Robert-Jan , I understand your reaction to way that comment was made, and I don't believe it was a nice comment to make. However, is there not some small truth inside the unnecessarily harsh way of saying it?I'm curious, has the author really never considered the potential risk of carrying so many high value items across borders? It would seem highly unlikely that the thought never crossed his mind, and if it hadn't, I would wonder why not. I live along a major international border and I travel a lot internationally for work. Perhaps my situation makes me more keenly aware than most of the danger crossing borders with high value goods. However, I would assume someone working for such a major blog/magazine as yours would have had at least some level of exposure... no?
(I understand that getting caught not being fully honest sometimes leads to a Custom agent penalizing someone to the 'full extent of the law'. And I see how this might feel unreasonable, but the reality is we run the risk of such punishment every time we don't fully disclose anything that could be 'questionable'.)

A well put comment. I don't always think too deeply about free story content and I am just grateful when it triggers a 'safety' reminder. Some people will well know there are parts of Europe where you can sleep, work and lunch in three different countries on a daily basis. Crossing borders is seemless and my record is five countries in a day. After a while you do start to ignore borders and get blasé. Of course Switzerland is outside the EU but apart from buying a freeway ticket I have never been stopped. We all have a lot of high value personal stuff on us now. Phone, pad, laptop, watches. I for one found it a helpful reminder. A bit like this story..

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...seizure-charleston-gazette-mail-a8518041.html

and this one..... The authorities have a lot more power than you think and 99% most of the time us law abiding citizens don't come into contact with them... so it can be a shock.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47737635
Edited:
 
ioaniro
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eugeneandresson eugeneandresson
Why don't you write the article and get RJ to post it? It would be a really short article, titled 'Carnet', and have text like 'To avoid any customs disputes travel with all personal possessions fully declared in a carnet, including all 17 pairs of underpants'.

We can agree to disagree about 'professionalism'. Your comments were uncalled for, no need to continue.

Yes we do agree to disagree, because if I would write it it would not be a good article because I am not a professional. Also nobody's comments are called or uncalled for is an open discussion forum. Why would your comment be called for and mine not? 😗
 
eugeneandresson
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ioaniro ioaniro
Also nobody's comments are called or uncalled for is an open discussion forum.

For sure, but remember, what you say here stays for all to read ... and your comments have marked you as somewhat of a troll 😗
I don't mind if you dont mind.

ioaniro ioaniro
Why would your comment be called for and mine not? 😗

I did not comment specifically about the way the article was written, nor about the guy who wrote it.
I did comment about the subject of the article, as I have done exactly the same thing as the author, and the only difference between me and the author is I do not write for a watch blog in my free time off of work.

Subtle difference.

ioaniro ioaniro
because if I would write it it would not be a good article

Go for it, I dare you 👍
 
Evitzee
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I think this thread has gone off the rails for its intended purpose. In a rational world Swiss Customs would have made the determination after five minutes that these goods were personal items and they would have sent him on his way. But we don't live in a rational world these days, countries play tit-for-tat games, requiring visitors to pay for previously free visas or searching around for violations, almost always cash or drugs. It's the fallout of heightened security after 9/11, some real, and a lot phony. A hobbyist on vacation with two, three of four watches will raise questions when he trots up to a customs officer with a commercial carnet. Proceed with caution if you go down this rabbit hole. The first question will be 'Why?' from the customs man. And it will spiral from there. In my view it you want to cover yourself take your receipts with you, and you can stop by the outgoing customs office and fill out a form listing your goods. That lets you bring them back with no issues, and 99.99% of the time foreign countries could care less about your PERSONAL belongings as a tourist visitor.

The journalist just got nabbed by an overzealous agent who wanted to conflate commercia! and personal goods and just wouldn't back down. Just bad luck. It happens.
Edited:
 
ioaniro
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Yes, I think the thread is a bit derailed, some people think they are the only ones entitled to an opinion. I stick to my comment about the article.
About the traveling and the paranoia at borders I agree, since a while many things have been getting worse and worse. And since soon US and EU will have to even out their visa reciprocity I'm assuming it will get even worse. Currently some countries in EU need visa for US and since that is against EU treaties they will have to iron that out. Fun times ahead.

As a side note I am a EU citizen living in Switzerland so had a lot of first hand experience with Swiss border guards doing their job.
 
MTROIS
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ioaniro ioaniro
As a side note I am a EU citizen living in Switzerland so had a lot of first hand experience with Swiss border guards doing their job.
And how has that been going for you? Please share some of your wisdom with us. Enlighten us, professionally.

In any case, one apple can spoil the bunch... especially an over-zealous Grenzwache police officer...
 
eugeneandresson
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Evitzee Evitzee
take your receipts with you

Vintage watches don’t necessarily have receipts. Watches bought online from overseas (and taxed through customs) don’t usually have the full description, reference / serial numbers on the import / tax forms (depending on where you live...we all don’t live in the US, so it’s not mandatory to fill in a watch questionaire). Only shops / dealers will send an invoice, and yet the two watches I bought from dealers have none. Most imported watches usually are declared as ‘wristwatch | value XXXX’)...so from a tax perspective there is 0 correlation. If you buy a watch from a fellow collector you don’t even get that.
 
snake.doctor
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eugeneandresson eugeneandresson
Vintage watches don’t necessarily have receipts. Watches bought online from overseas (and taxed through customs) don’t usually have the full description, reference / serial numbers on the import / tax forms (depending on where you live...we all don’t live in the US, so it’s not mandatory to fill in a watch questionaire). Only shops / dealers will send an invoice, and yet the two watches I bought from dealers have none. Most imported watches usually are declared as ‘wristwatch | value XXXX’)...so from a tax perspective there is 0 correlation. If you buy a watch from a fellow collector you don’t even get that.

Well this is why you should at least make an invoice for a watch you're buying from a private seller.

At least if it gets stolen or broken, you also have something for the insurance company.

When I buy something expensive from a private person, I just make a sale contract stating the item (with serial number if available), the identity of the seller with his signature and the price.

It's easy to do and can save you a lot of troubles.
 
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