Speedy Tintin information gathering

davy26 · Apr 16, 2016

oddboy
Then there's this lonely little racing dial that someone really should buy.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/reduced-omega-racing-“grand-sport”-68.32146/

That is very elegant.

uwsearch · Apr 16, 2016

mokofoko
You're saying they produced dials for some company, and that they placed orders for more through other vendors? I'm assuming you're not talking about this specific model of dial... I assume that Omega makes all of their dials in-house.

I'm talking about that red/white "Tintin" dial... "Omega" is not making their own dials, don't you know that Swatch Group is a big company?

mokofoko · Apr 16, 2016

uwsearch
I'm talking about that red/white "Tintin" dial... "Omega" is not making their own dials, don't you know that Swatch Group is a big company?

Okay, are you saying that Swatch is making the dials in-house, or going outside their wholly-owned supply chain? When I said "Omega in-house", that means the same thing as "Swatch in-house"--one is under the purview of the other, and isn't going to screw the other over.

How would I know unless I worked for them or knew someone who did (as you do)? From a common-sense standpoint, dials and cases are high-profile items that you'd strictly want to fabricate in-house. Otherwise, copies flood the market after the fact--LOTS of examples of this especially with Chinese factories. Benro essentially got its start by having Gitzo parts duplicated from the same factories that were contracted to pump out Gitzo parts. If Swatch is really hiring outside companies to make their dials, that's beyond foolish.

So back to the topic I'm actually interested in: you know for a fact that 400 tintin dials were made. Any way to find out how many others received the same order so we can get a better idea of how many of these tintins are floating around out there? If two other companies got an order, we can at least assume there are 1,200 or more, right?

uwsearch · Apr 16, 2016

I don't mean that these dials were made out of swatch group but can't say more about it. And I've no info from other dial makers and other production numbers.
Usually half of dial production is kept for service, so even if you guess that 1200 were produced, that makes 600 watches only.
My guess is that total production is lower than that, at least far less than usual Speedmaster limited editions.

mokofoko · Apr 16, 2016

uwsearch
I don't mean that these dials were made out of swatch group but can't say more about it. And I've no info from other dial makers and other production numbers.
Usually half of dial production is kept for service, so even if you guess that 1200 were produced, that makes 600 watches only.
My guess is that total production is lower than that, at least far less than usual Speedmaster limited editions.

Nuts! I was hoping you were onto something concrete. I guess we'll never know for sure. I had no idea they made such a large number strictly to keep for service replacements.

Archer · Apr 17, 2016

mokofoko
From a common-sense standpoint, dials and cases are high-profile items that you'd strictly want to fabricate in-house.

Omega and others have outsourced dials for decades and decades...

The whole idea of everything being made "in house" is fairly new. Many companies still outsource piles of parts for the their watches, including dials, hands, cases, etc. Some bigger companies have bought out the smaller companies that made those parts, and therefore made them in house but many have not.

The more you bring in house the more susceptible you are to market fluctuations...from a business standpoint having everything in house is not a great idea.

Cheers, Al

al128 · Apr 17, 2016

I know there is a very subjective component in this Q. - but here I go anyway:

would you do a straight swap of your SMPc for a (same condition) TinTin? ... interested in the longer term aspects of the question.

thx and cheers,
Al

mokofoko · Apr 18, 2016

Archer
Omega and others have outsourced dials for decades and decades...

The whole idea of everything being made "in house" is fairly new. Many companies still outsource piles of parts for the their watches, including dials, hands, cases, etc. Some bigger companies have bought out the smaller companies that made those parts, and therefore made them in house but many have not.

The more you bring in house the more susceptible you are to market fluctuations...from a business standpoint having everything in house is not a great idea.

Cheers, Al

Valid points. I'm not suggesting that everything should be produced in-house of course--mainly just the dials/bezels if nothing else. The dial being the easiest tell in spotting a non-franken fake without checking the movement. While there apparently haven't been any real reports of perfectly copied dials showing up on replica Omegas (or am I wrong?), what a nightmare that situation would be.

Even without a background in business I'm well-aware that almost all manufacturers don't make all--or even most of--their own parts. I mean what percent of Apple iPhone parts are actually made by Apple? Less than 10%?

mokofoko · Apr 18, 2016

al128
I know there is a very subjective component in this Q. - but here I go anyway:

would you do a straight swap of your SMPc for a (same condition) TinTin? ... interested in the longer term aspects of the question.

thx and cheers,
Al

I assume you mean the base model and not the chronograph version of the smpc. This is just IMHO of course, but strictly speaking from a long-term 2nd hand value perspective, I'd go with the tintin. There should end up being way more SMPc's out there vs tintin (tintin may as well be a limited edition). Even now, used prices for SMPc base models (between $1800-$2250) are less than what you'd see for a used tintin in the rare instance where one is made available for sale. I don't think I've seen a used tintin offered for less than $2500.

Archer · Apr 18, 2016

mokofoko
Valid points. I'm not suggesting that everything should be produced in-house of course--mainly just the dials/bezels if nothing else. The dial being the easiest tell in spotting a non-franken fake without checking the movement. While there apparently haven't been any real reports of perfectly copied dials showing up on replica Omegas (or am I wrong?), what a nightmare that situation would be.

Even without a background in business I'm well-aware that almost all manufacturers don't make all--or even most of--their own parts. I mean what percent of Apple iPhone parts are actually made by Apple? Less than 10%?

You seem to believe that having a dial made by an outside company is an automatic recipe for fakes of the watch that dial is for. I would suggest where the dial is made is one of the lesser contributing factors to the likelihood of a specific watch being faked...

mokofoko · Apr 18, 2016

Archer
You seem to believe that having a dial made by an outside company is an automatic recipe for fakes of the watch that dial is for. I would suggest where the dial is made is one of the lesser contributing factors to the likelihood of a specific watch being faked...

I have little faith in humanity. If an opportunist can make a buck selling proprietary information, it probably will happen.

There are certainly all manner of replicas out there, some with horrible dials--others with fairly impressive ones. I contend that a replica with a perfect dial would fool a lot of people, especially on ebay where photos are generally poor and most don't show the movement. Assuming a strap is equipped rather than a bracelet, how many easy tells are there if the dial and case are perfect copies of the original?

Archer · Apr 18, 2016

mokofoko
I have little faith in humanity.

You must be a real laugh at dinner parties...

mokofoko
I contend that a replica with a perfect dial would fool a lot of people

Yes, there are a lot of fools out there for sure.

mokofoko
Assuming a strap is equipped rather than a bracelet, how many easy tells are there if the dial and case are perfect copies of the original?

How many Cal. 1861 replica movements are there? For the real dial to work it would have to have the same alignment for all the posts as the 1861 movement uses. I don't know of any movement that would easily "sub-in" for an 1861. The fakes use a movement with oddball spacing of all the sub dials from what I have seen.

mokofoko · Apr 18, 2016

Archer
You must be a real laugh at dinner parties...

Yes, there are a lot of fools out there for sure.

How many Cal. 1861 replica movements are there? For the real dial to work it would have to have the same alignment for all the posts as the 1861 movement uses. I don't know of any movement that would easily "sub-in" for an 1861. The fakes use a movement with oddball spacing of all the sub dials from what I have seen.

When people leave, I check to make sure none of the silverware has been taken!! I kid.

Hey, I never said anything about functionality--just that perfect dials in replicas would make life hell for armchair watch enthusiasts shopping for Omega's online 😀 I'd assume that easily-accessible replicas that looked accurate would have an impact on public perception of the Omega brand. Maybe not. Who knows.

Archer · Apr 18, 2016

mokofoko
Hey, I never said anything about functionality.

I know you didn't, which is why I brought it up...sorry to spoil your conspiracy theories...😀

mokofoko · Apr 18, 2016

Archer
I know you didn't, which is why I brought it up...sorry to spoil your conspiracy theories...😀

It's not a conspiracy theory if it's true!!

On a slightly related note, I was at a Dakota Watch recently getting my SMP midsize pressure tested, and I somehow spent 20 minutes listening to the nice gentleman at the counter explain how planes flying in unusual patterns recently were in fact commissioned by the government to pump chemicals into the atmosphere in order to control all of the "sheeple." That was a bit too much even for me. I meet some wonderful people thanks to this hobby/obsession.

xantiagib · Apr 18, 2016

lets get back on topic.... this is what attracted me almost as much as the dial:

sd20 · Apr 19, 2016

Just got mine last month from an Omega AD in Malaysia. SN as following 77227.xxx

mokofoko · Apr 23, 2016

Looks like Jomashop has tintin in stock again for $2995. That's the lowest non-used price I've seen.

xantiagib · Apr 27, 2016

For some reason I have taken a long time to get a photo of the two together...

Greatpa · Apr 28, 2016

Hello 😀
I have been following this thread alongside for some time now.
Thought I wanted to contribute with some info about the TinTin model (whether know or unknown information)

I have come across information that there still are models available to the European market. There are some left in stock for the boutiques in EU.
Also they are as you might already know being phased out. This means that another batch will not be produced (confirmed).

Regarding the production of the dial, some have been produced as service dials, to replace broken or ugly ones 😉 These are available to buy for authorized service centers (surprise😗)

I must admit that the model is attractive, mostly because of the might-be-a-good-investment aspect.
I am curious; What color shirt and/or outfit would you wear with this watch? 😕 I find it hard to make a match in my mind.