Anyone else finding that it is a tad unrealistic? Feel like watches are just trading for more $ as I watch sales happen here and on eBay. Ultimately the market is the market and is whatever a willing buyer and seller are willing to transact at, so starting to think it may not be a reliable guide. Thoughts?

 

As I understand it, there's a lot of data behind the pricing index, but as with all markets, blips, fluctuations, and slides in either direction do happen!

Possibly best to ask the chap who puts the effort into building and maintaining it - @Spacefruit

 

Three thoughts:
1. Prices on the chart are for head only. Most watches for sale include a bracelet or strap. Some include boxes/papers., extract, etc. These extras add to the value, so you should adjust accordingly.
2. Prices on the chart are for actual known transactions, so they tend to lag just a bit because it isn't updated in real time.
3. There's always going to be a gap between the prices of known transactions and asking prices. When a dealer or private seller lists a Speedmaster for sale, we don't always find out what the actual purchase price was.

Do you have any examples to point out where the price was unrealistic?

 

The chart is actual known prices, so it is not unrealistic. It's not some computer calculation. For the few transactions I have witnessed, mainly brick and mortar auktions, I have found the chart to illustrate final sales prices pretty accurately.

 

On top of what has already been written, I think it's best to "protect" the buyers with slightly lower guideline prices than doing the opposite and creating a feeling of having been cheated
Someone needs to invent the bloomberg for vintage watches !

 

Ah, Padawan,

https://omegaforums.net/threads/speedmaster-prices.35390/

 

"Who is more foolish, the fool or the fool that follows him?"

 

The fool who fools the fool's fool is the most foolish fooler of all the followers.

 

Sorry Joel, I just had to get a Kenobi quote in there.
The OP said it "Ultimately the market is the market and is whatever a willing buyer and seller are willing to transact at,"
Spacefruit is a most respectable member on here and the prices on the guide are just that. If anybody would care to have a better estimate I guess it would be most warmly welcomed.

 

You were typing that as I was writing a reply is that like "Peter Piper"

 

No worries! I got the reference.

 

"Then why don't you listen to me?"

 

Thanks all - and absolutely meant zero disrespect for @Spacefruit - my interest and excitement for vintage speedies all started with the Speedmaster101 site, not to mention the wealth of knowledge I glean from it daily. Been discouraged as of late trying to chase down opportunities, but I will persist in my quest to find my dream speedy!

 

It also doesn't help that prices seem to go up faster than one could reasonably update a price chart.

What percentage increase do you think this next update will show?

I'd love to see a price list for parts. Those too are out of control. I was planning on selling some parts but by the time I get around to figuring out price, pics, etc, it seems like prices go up 10-20%. Why bother.

I'm still looking for dial for -69/-71 dial.

 

It's in the interest of us buyers that the prices in the chart stay low. It's the dealers that demand the chart be updated with the paid high bid!

 

Definition of "Guide".
a thing that helps someone to form an opinion or make a decision or calculation.
"here is a guide to the number of curtain hooks you will need"
synonyms: model, pattern, blueprint, template, example, exemplar;

 

It is sadly when you need guide,besides that healthy eyes.

 

At the top of the Price Guide Page: (I have highlighted the important part)

• This Chart is for MOTIVATED COLLECTORS. The prices here DO NOT reflect retail prices (as found in Vintage Watch Shops), or often not even dealer prices all of which are often 20%-100% higher. Almost every price in the chart is backed up by a known purchase or sale, often my own. The fact that Chrono 24 has a 2998 for $80,000 does not mean that is what you have to pay to own one. I genuinely believe I / you can find a watch at prices I quote – with patience and dealing with the Vintage Omega community.
• Remember also, exceptional watches will command prices off the chart – if a watch is especially attractive, then they will command a premium.

People who query the prices often have not fully grasped that the numbers are:

Head only.
Private, collector to collector transactions. This is an important point. Collectors dont need profits. They have real jobs, and this is our hobby.

The numbers are there as a start. We then add a premium on for:
Originality
Overall attractiveness
Buyers desire or impatience
And we can also say you need to add a dealers premium, probably 30-50% if it is being sold by a dealer.


Any time there is a commercial component, then the price will rise so that the dealer/auctioneer can take a profit. There was a sale recently of an 861 speedmaster on this forum for under $3000. That was a collector to collector sale.

So now most Speedmaster trades are now more commonly those with a profit motive. This always drives prices up and often quality down, (As sellers try to "improve"the watch, usually doing something that makes it worse for me). Now there are more one owner watches coming through B&M auctions than ebay, and since those auctions take around 30% of the total price, you can see it makes the price higher than two private parties who if they find each other could do the deal for 30% less without the seller losing money. (Or ebay which takes a max of $750 out of the deal).

I do accept the prices on the chart are now on the low side at the moment due to rapid rises, but the trouble is what we are seeing on ebay, on Chrono24, in Christies, and even in Fellows, is lower quality trade watches that might find it hard to sell cold, here in this forum for the same prices that they are achieving in the excitement of live auction. Also these trade sites like Chrono24 are asking higher prices than those that are being achieved. Some Ebay BIN watches have been there for over a year.

What I do think is that the "poor "catagory is becoming irrelevant as very few watches are now in this condition - note the early watches no longer have a price for "poor"

 

Perhaps you could show some examples?
Then I could lead you through the thinking, and perhaps even see I am wrong!