For a while now I have published a price chart for speedmasters, based on my own experience and primarily for my own use - If others find it useful I am happy. It is however a tool, and like all tools needs to be practiced with in order to get the best use out of it. http://speedmaster101.com/price-chart-2/

I received a well thought out question from my website, and I think his points are valid and deserve addressing in a wider forum.

Here is the question:
All of the watches I have found (I am new to being a "Speedy-junkie") seems to be far away from the prices you are stating. I am mainly looking through Chrono24, for example a 145.012-67 in Good condition comes in at around $11 000. The same watch in Running condition seems to be priced at around $7500. I am thinking of buying an 145.022-69 in Good condition (one produced in 1973 according to the seller) and it is priced at $7 000. The prices on the market seems to be always twice than in your chart. Am I ripped of or has the prices for vintage Omega Speedmaster Professional sky-rocketed the last month? I have just bought a Moonwatch 1994 in Good condition, I had to pay $3 000 for it, according to your chart would have had me 145.022-7X for the same price which would have suited me better It would be interesting to hear what you have to say about this.

The key sentence in this question is "I have been mainly looking through Chrono24".

The price chart at www.speedmaster101.com was built up by me using four related but arbitrary categories. The prices I put in are the prices I saw watches selling for, averaged and adjusted for correctness of parts, condition etc. I am an active buyer so the prices are known to me first hand as well as other (kind souls) who generously tell me what they pay. One of the issues I have is the lower number of watches coming from private hands means a larger proportion of trades is from dealer to consumer. This means people are having to pay the dealers profit.

Also remember the categories are four words, chosen to allocate a watch's quality somewhere between a restorable poor watch and an almost NOS. (and all are head only, which can make as much as $2500 difference for a good 7077 with No6 endlinks).

The prices I show are prices that I know collectors sell between themselves, and internet auction data - especially ebay. Most of the time ebay auction prices are lower than the fixed prices, or traders asking prices. After all it is the price set by the market at that moment in time. It is my experience that bricks and mortar (B&M) auctions are usually higher, and for no good reason apart from higher exposure to potential buyers. I do not let B&M auctions influence the chart unduly.

A place I have not used for price data is chrono24. We have to be very careful with this site. This is because the prices tend to be higher, and offered by dealers, and often of dubious quality. Up until now the supply of watches from private sources eclipsed those offered by dealers. The dealers on Chrono24 are often not as knowledgeable on Speedmasters as they are on Rolex, and I feel that many Omegas are there somewhat there by default - I don't think Omegas contribute to a dealers bottom line like Rolex. I have never bought an Omega from Chrono24. If you knew how many I have, you would know what that meant. I am just trying to say that I, a motivated collector, have not found a watch I wanted to buy on chrono24 for several years.

There is no doubt in my mind we are in a rapidly expanding price bubble. Will it burst? Sure! That's not the question. The question is when, and at what level. There are still private speedmasters coming onto the market. I bought one end of last year, very happy with it, on open auction where you all could see it.

Also at the end of last year I sold a 145.012 with an STS service for just under $6000. Jackomond in Beverly Hills as a respectable one for $6700, again on the net for all to see. So I think that $11,000 for a 145.012 offered at Chrono24 is too high....for the moment. The Jackomond watch was first offered last year and looked very expensive, but now its only a little bit high!

Here on this forum a 145.022-69 Brown Dial with a service just sold on an asking price of $5100.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/reduced-chocolate-69-speedmaster.34605/#post-399658
If you compare the price to the 145.022 referred to in the question that we can see what I am trying to say about the prices at Chrono24 being out of touch with those paid by people inside the community, rather than newcomers who have yet to delve in deeper. (And I accept there are plenty of people who just want one watch, and a thousand here or there might not matter in the long run).

So if you are new, by all means look in Chrono24, but much better here in the sales forum. Of course ebay is the mother lode in all collecting, although its not what it was. But it still has some gems, we have to look harder than before, and I suppose at some point it will dry up - certainly for speedmasters. While I was somewhat derisory about B&M auctions, every now and then a bargain will slip through. Last winter in Hong Kong I bought a 105.012 for what seems like a cheap price now. I had to service it and replace the bezel, but a very nice watch.

So my price chart is aimed at those of us who still regard this as a hobby, not pseudo-dealers, (and not bona-fide dealers!). Nor can it be used to judge dealers prices. Well it can, but it will make them look expensive.

I am posting for two reasons. First I want to say to a wide audience the prices on the chart are for those right in the market, collectors with knowledge, money and the ability to make quick, no nonsense decisions who are known to operate with integrity and speed of settlement. It is not aimed at people who prefer to buy from retailers, expect after service, or anything other bells and whistles. You cannot use the chart to look at the vintage watches in Ralph Lauren!

Secondly I am curious to hear what people think. I know that most people are thinking the prices are low, and it is true the prices are rising faster than I can keep up - by that I mean I like to see a price stabalize at a level before i raise it, but this is hard - especially with 2998's.

I could simply double all the prices, then people could be knocking percentages off it like the Rappaport Diamond Price list (Google it).

I prefer to use this as a guide, and I happily pay over the list price if the watch can charm me.

Thats the whole point. Let the watch argue its own case for being worth more than the chart.

Right now I can find on ebay:

145.0022 (non T dial) Euros 1650
145.012-67 $6900
145.012-67 $5290
145.012-67 $6990
145.012-67 $6800
145.022-76 $2800

All this illustrates the difference in prices in somwhere like Chrono24 and the market where people like us sell to each other.

I think what often happens is that a new buyer, while looking for reassurance, goes to a professional looking site like Chrono24 and not unreasonably expects a certain level of knowledge, and service, that is not always there.

 

Great post @Spacefruit! As someone who just purchased his second Omega and first Speedy Pro I read your site front to back and found your price guide very informational. I ended up purchasing a 145.022-76 and the price was right on par with your guide and assuming a condition of "Good". Add in the fact that it was all original, had a light patina and came with original box from a reputable collector I figured it was a solid buy.

Thanks for the info, keep up the good work! I felt like alot of the pieces on Chrono24 and ebay are in worse shape and higher priced.

For those shopping I'd say start here on the Omega Forum and support the sellers here with positive documented feedback.

 

Thanks for the post, I find it spot on.

 

Great post, thank you! And of course, a generous thank you for your site!

As a relative newb, I can say I would not have had the confidence to act were it not for your site. I do find the prices slightly low (especially on the 2998s), but then maybe in that range, it's really a matter of how badly you want a given watch. When you consider that they're averaged, it's not surprising that they are not exact (and suggest a range) as some go high and some go low. I've always used it as a reference.. am I paying 50% more than I should? Or 10%? (or have I found an absolute bargain!)

The price chart is invaluable.

And totally agree on c24. I've seen some watches there that were nice, but always quite a bit higher than you could find elsewhere. I've never bought one from there either.

 

I did look at Chrono24, but the prices seem way high in my observation, so I no longer bother.

I just looked up Ed Whites on eBay to get sense what has sold (I did not look at the details of any of these) and while only three sold in the last 2.5 months, nothing over $7500. Compare that to the listings on CHRONO24....Average list price is $12k?!?

 

Great post @Spacefruit

Having a bit of time lately with holidays over the Christmas period and recovering from pneumonia it amazes me the people that are new to watches that want a Speedmaster all of a sudden. Not only a Speedmaster but a vintage one.
The me me me now now now attitude seems to get greater every day which is a part of the world we live in today.

The dealers are also using your price guide and adding their $2000 on top.

The work you do is a asset to all. And many of us acknowledge that, but most will just use your guide and think that it is the rule for all speedmasters.

Thanks again for all you give to the forum.

 

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading through your site spacefruit. The guide has proved to be very useful to me. Thanks for all of your hard work! I'm just astonished with how the 68 transitionals keep climbing each month.

 

Great post. I hope this thread rolls on into a good debate.

I started looking at vintage Speedmasters around 2012-13 and expected to find that 60's watches would cost significantly more than a new one, but was shocked that they were comparable or even cheaper. Obviously that's not the case now, but I think this was a correction that was bound to happen as they were seriously undervalued for some time. I do however think we're in something of a bubble at the minute, but it may well go on for some time yet as I'm shocked by the final price of pretty much every ebay auction right now.

Completely agree that for some, your price cart may look low. Especially now that significant numbers of dealers seem to have switched at least part of their attention onto vintage Speedmasters and offer examples at what I assume many of us think are ludicrous prices. Im sure that no half way seasoned collector is paying these prices and the prices realised are significantly lower, or the odd newbie gets carried away, or they simply do not sell at these prices. Personally, I think it's just dealers trying their luck.

On the other side of things, i do think decent deals can still be had, at or around the prices described on your site. But, you've got to know what your looking at and have confidence in your knowledge to be able to make a call on a piece as and when it comes up. If you need to ask for a lot of advice, chances are you'll miss out or have to pay a premium, due to the increased visibility of the sale. I bought a one owner 68 transitional last year for under £1200, via eBay auction, with terrible, blurry pictures but I could make out the correct bezel, dial and vintage bracelet. It had issues but it's sinced had most of these rectified at service. It's list its lume which is a big negative, but similar examples are now listed for £4k.

I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with your analysis that your price chart reflects what collectors are perhaps paying, rather than what the random bloke on the street, who recently decided he wants a Speedmaster, is paying.

Patience is a huge factor. I bought four Speedmasters in 2014, only one last year (although I had less funds available as I was in the middle of a house restoration) and none so far this year. I'm always on the lookout and almost sent a pm about the brown dial you mentioned above, but I'm in no rush. I'm happy to sit out for a period as quality goes down and prices go up, confident that the odd one will pop up and I'll be ready when it does. I wonder if people new to vintage watches often think that the one they're looking at is the last one that will ever come up for sale, so they'd better buy it quick, regardless of price. This is exactly the way I thought at the start and that desire to get your hands on one quick can be hard to control!

 

Thank you @Spacefruit for your generosity in sharing your knowledge

I never considered C24 to begin with since its full of sketchy watches ridiculously priced.

Also, I don't think its a bubble! It will plateau at some point when its simply unaffordable to the mass. And then everyone would find the new "undervalued-must-buy watch" directed by Hodinkee

 

@Spacefruit is indeed proving watch collectors with a great service. His comment that people who go to dealers expect a certain level of knowledge and experience that is not always there interests me. With coins and stamps, the collecting hobbies I started with, the opposite is the case. Knowledge is so universal and highly developed, you are unlikely to get a screaming bargain or ripped off from a major dealer, at least with the more valuable specimens (>$200 or so). The big exception to this rule is counterfeits, though true professionals are seldom fooled. But you soon learn there are almost no valuable collectible stamps from after about 1940, and not many more coins, and caches of old ones are seldom found. So there is little mystery or uncertainty left in those hobbies, and also little vitality. Watch collecting is a much younger hobby (at least Omega and Rolex collecting!), where long and careful research can still pay dividends for the experienced collector. That also means good, reputable, knowledgeable dealers are likely worth their premium, at least for those looking just for a watch, not a hobby.

 

Love your website!

on the don bezel issue on the 145.022-69STs, are your stated prices with or without them? How much should we add with? Im just confused on that part because DON bezels have been slowly rising up in prices. I know you have some outline as of how to add, but its just a bit confusing to me!

I'm only saying that because DON bezels on these models are slowly growing helping their value rise.

Overall, I think speedy prices will continue to rise due to supply with increased demand. What will also drive prices are 3 areas also: condition, DON90, tropical or not

 

Glad you are bring this up @Spacefruit. Firstly, I think I speak for everyone when I say I am grateful for your site and all the effort you put in it to educate the community. It was a significant contributor to my obsession with straight lug Speedies. Maintaining a price guide is a very considerate yet daunting task. Gathering all the data is a challenge, and it's difficult to compare apples with apples when it comes to vintage. While the prices in the guide are quite low IMHO, I think it's important that the community knows how to use it. I believe it serves well for directional purposes but not to be taken so literally. I certainly will pay (and have paid) more than guidance when the piece checks all the boxes and has that charm.

 

Mike its true. And on my visit to you in Princeton I passed a college, who's motto was:

"To seek knowledge and honour" I thought that was a good way to strive to live.

It was almost as memorable as your 2998 !

 

Most days of the week I refer to speedy101, and without this site, I would have entirely shied away
from vintage speedies. So a heartfelt thanks to Spacefruit. I have bought 3 speedies in the last 1 1/2 years
and am working on a forth, all cost more than speedy 101 prices, but not that much more. Fortunately, I am financaily in a position where if I spend 10% more on a keeper that is just right, it's no big deal over the long haul.

I am glad the price guide tends toward the low side because the speedy101 price chart has become so much more than a guidline for potential buyers. It has in fact become a reference point for negotiations. In some ways, it actually sets the bar!

I can only hope that a bubble doesn't burst and speedy prices tank, but rather just flatten out. But, who really knows?

 

I think your site is great and all the hard work that you have put into it is a really good site to learn about the speedmaster's. When I joined this forum a little over 2 years ago and wanted to learn about my 145022-68ST I was told it was a transistional (sp) and that the value was not that much and now they have jumped in price. I am a novice and not a collector, but I love going to your site to get a little more educated on my watch. I've had my watch since new and unfortunately being young at the time lost the box and papers. Not to mention I wore it for the first two years and it was tucked away in my drawer until a year ago to where I had it serviced. Keep up the good work.

 

chrono 24 is , like ebay, a marketing tool. you can always contact the seller with an offer outside ebay to skip fees. that happens all the time and chrono 24 is no exception. contact them and offer something, that benefits them as well. works often kind regards. achim

 

As will all things, pricing can be subjective... did I most likely over paid for my 69 I just bought.. yes.. I got a good watch and you know what I was driving my wife crazy looking and my school semester was about to start back up so all and all was I comfortable with what I paid yes. Sometimes coming late to the party the cover charge goes up...

 

I'll add my name to the list of people who used your pricing guide as a valuable tool to ground my often over zealous desire to score my first Speedy. Since I am pretty new to the game I trusted that there were others that knew far more than me and your site was/is a major resource. I took my time, learned everything I could, bought the book and kept looking for a reasonable price from a good seller. It took months but I scored a fantastic 145.022-76 that was right in the range that your guide listed. It gave me a great base to judge the watch by.

So thanks for all of the information and the upkeep to the pricing guide. I'm sure it's a massive amount of work.

 

William, I appreciate your work very much - and I found it admirable that you re-built your site after the crash of the site one or two years ago.

Me too, I find the prices a little low. If I would find these watches for the prices published on your site, I would have some more in my box....
But I consider the prices like a "bond floor" e.g. a price I would surely achieve if I had to sell immediately. This ist totally fine for me. I check your price reference and then look at the asking price of a certain Speedy - and if I think the premium is ok for me, I buy.

There's just one thing that could be very interesting and that I am missing - a chart showing the development of the prices over a period of 1 / 2 / 5 years would be great. Not that I ask you to do this additional work - I just think, this would be very interesting...

Thanx again for your educational work.
Best, Thomas