I’m asked to make an offer on the watch below. According to the owner, his dad bought it in the sixties and gave it to him in 1998, where he sent it to Omega to get a service. Owner don’t know what was done to it, but when the watch came back, the old bezel and dial you see below, followed it. Am I right, if I say the hands were changed too? Original parts: Is the old parts good enough to reattach, and would you? Beside a service, how much will you estimate the cost of correcting things to? And last, what will be a fair price for both of us, if a 321 vs. if a 861? Thanks.
Old parts look to be in good condition. Putting them back on will definitely enhance the value of the watch, IMO.
Interesting watch. Curved lugs and applied Omega dial would make it 105.012 or 145.012 or 145.022-68 (the transitional beast). The dial is of the later variety with the applied Omega and it doesn't have a 2 step case back. It is not a CB case so I'm guessing it's a 145.012 or the 145.022-68 transitional. Both are desirable watches. The bracelet however does not appear to be that would have come with either of these two. The case and back look to be in good condition. The original bezel is a worn DON (dot over 90). I'd look for one in better shape, they are not super hard to find in better condition. All of the photos are overexposed and a bit towards the blue spectrum making it hard to evaluate any patina on the dial or hands. The sweep second hand looks original and displays a good amount of patina. It is also the type that was used on the c321 watches, so I'd guess that this is a 145.012. The hour and minute hands display less age than the sweep second hand, but again the photos make that a difficult evaluation. I think that the dial has seen better days, but again the photos aren't very good. It looks like the lume may be missing from most of the hour markers. I can see some lume w/patina on the 12, 11, 9, 7 and 6 hour markers. Finding an appropriate dial for that watch, although a bit more difficult than finding another DON bezel, isn't an insurmountable task. There wouldn't be any additional cost to use the original bezel and dial if you have the watch serviced, since they are going to disassemble the watch anyway. A photo of the movement would sure help in evaluating the watch. If you were to buy the watch and have it serviced using the original parts you could add a better bezel and better dial down the road. Changing the bezel would take the watchmaker minutes and shouldn't cost too much. Changing the dial would take a bit more time but again shouldn't cost that much, especially if you are going back to the watchmaker that serviced the watch. Your next question is what is the value of the watch. A 145.012 in good condition is going to go for ~$4000. Service is going to be in the $600 range. I'd budget $750 for a better bezel and dial. A fair price might be ~$3000. This of course is dependent on what the watch actually is. My conclusion is based on external cues. You really need to see what is inside the case too.
Most of the lume on the dial is gone. It´s a pity but not a disaster. The dial looks great besides that. I would definitely use it, but first see if the markers could be refilled (non-glowing of course) with tritium mass. Would be a great shame to scrap the dial, just because the original lume has fallen off. The tachy ring look great too, just need a bath. It need a pair of correct hour- and minute hands, you can keep the chrono sec. I agree that a fair price would be up to USD 3k, and it doesn´t matter in that case if it´s a 321 or a transitional 861. I would appreciate both equally much!
The bezel could actually be better than it looks at the first glance. My impression is that the brown stuff at the inner diameter is just plain dirt, it looks as if a piece has already fallen off at the 85.
The more you look and learn about the pre-moon speedies, the sooner that original dial will go back in! It looks to be aged, just like it is. I'd use it and enjoy the patina.
Well, it’s now in my possession. Watch is from 1967 and carries a 321 engine. Turns out the original dial is way nicer than the sellers image showed. No pitting on it at all and there’s more left of the lume than I thought, too. After a quick bath the original bezel also turned out to be very nice, so all in all I’m pretty happy with my purchase. I’ll have it serviced and the original dial and bezel added, and then see if I can live with those shiny hour and minute hands. Check the bunch of pics below and let me know what you think – good and bad. PS. The small white stuff on the dial pics is either dust on the dial or on my Iphone lens Thank you for all information and advice given
Very nice. That bezel looks great. The movement looks great also! The dial is better than in the photo. And it's a 145.012, who would've thunk that to be the case.
That is AMAZING cleanup on that dot-over-90 bezel. This purchase was worth it for the bezel alone. Nice work. Suggest you look for a set of vintage hands, and you'll be very happy with a very nice, truly "restored" calibre 321!! (I can't believe Omega did what they did to this watch!!)
I will. Is eBay my best chance, or.......? Agree. But at least they don’t toss the old parts, but return them along with the watches. I guess the old hands for mine were returned too, but that the guy I bought it from, just lost them…..
Congratz Paul! It looks very good already, and with the vintage dial and some "ditto" vintage hands you will be the guardian of a very special Speedy! Worst case you could consider to have the lume on the "modern" hands to be redone with a fill material that matches the vintage lume color. !
I'm not convinced that you have replacement hands. The only photo with the hands are the ones at the top of the thread and everything is washed out by the harsh light. Could you post a photo of the hands? Your photo of the dial shows way more lume w/patina than the original photos. If you shine a light on the hands and then look in the dark is there any lume? I would expect there to be some if the hands have been replaced. You state that the original owner sent the watch to Omega in 1998. I would be surprised if they still had those hands available. They stopped using that style of sweep second hand in ~1967. I doubt that they put them on the watch in 1998.
I support this, the hands often look very bright compared to the aged lume, so people get the impression they must have been replaced. On my 65 and 69 they are also extremely white and I am sure they are still original, because these watches are in my hands since nearly 30 years. And happy to see that my prediction came true that the bezel would probably clean up nicely.