Speedmaster Ultraman?

[Yelbic]

My 1967 Speedmaster Professional appears to be an Ultraman. Just a few moments ago, I opened up the back with my brand new Professional Watch opener and without a bit of challenge unveiled the movement.

Here is what I found:

Case Back: 145012 67 SP
Cal 321
S/N 26X79X7X

Is this the real deal???? I think it might be and I have attached a few photos for your review. According to my research the S/N is the exact sequence for the Ultraman. I am beyond excited.

Love a few more insights into this. Cannot believe that I may have hit the lottery. I saw one that went for $75,000 at auction. Let me know your thoughts.

Edited: Feb 20, 2020

 

[WYO_Watch]

And you were going to restore this.....

https://omegaforums.net/threads/brand-new-member-in-need-of-speedmaster-advice.6219/

Sheesh, glad you finally found your camera 7 years later and didn’t ruin your watch

 

[padders]

Congratulations. These are popping up everywhere, well not quite but they are clearly rather more plentiful than collectors suspected even a year ago. It is considerably more valuable than a plain -67 but the days of them making $75k are long gone. Think nearer $20-25k maybe since the condition ain’t perfect and only the very best watches make top money in this market. Yours does look like it might be real, the serial and hand length look good. To be certain, apply for an extract to confirm it but Omega seem quite happy to issue those when the watch is In range and that range is over 3k watches wide.

Edited: Feb 20, 2020

 

[Etp095]

Wow, that’s a sweet watch, I just noticed your original thread was from 2013! Same advice as in 2013, don’t touch the dial, hands, pushers, and case. If your going to keep the watch, just have an expert service the movement. If your plans are to sell, don’t do anything to the watch, collector's like their watches untouched, bringing you top dollar.
good luck

 

[Yelbic]

Not touching this... Two tiny issues I need help with: Chronograph minute hand resets to 3 o'clock each time and it appears to have a non Omega hallmarked crystal. Resolve them or leave alone????

 

[Yelbic]

WYO_Watch

And you were going to restore this.....

https://omegaforums.net/threads/brand-new-member-in-need-of-speedmaster-advice.6219/

Sheesh, glad you finally found your camera 7 years later and didn’t ruin your watch

and I used to make my living as a photographer. Watch has been sitting in Safe Deposit vault for years and I grabbed it a few weeks ago... LOL

 

[Andy K]

Yelbic

Not touching this... Two tiny issues I need help with: Chronograph minute hand resets to 3 o'clock each time and it appears to have a non Omega hallmarked crystal. Resolve them or leave alone????

Do you plan on wearing it, selling it, or putting it back in the vault for another extended period? If you are going to wear it I'd find a good independent watchmaker and have them service/repair the movement and give them strict instructions to make no changes to the dial, hands, bezel, or case. If you plan on selling it or only pulling it out of the vault to admire I'd leave it as is.

 

[OMEGuy]

This one looks like a nice Speedmaster that needs a service, some cleaning, new subdial hands, a correct crown and a #516 end piece. Hour and minute hand look slightly off to me.

I would consider a relume of the markers.

Edited: Feb 20, 2020

 

[mr_yossarian]

OMEGuy

This one looks like a nice Speedmaster that needs a service, some cleaning, new subdial hands, a correct crown and a #516 end piece. Hour and minute hand look slightly off to me.

I would consider a relume of the markers.

What about just completely building it up with self engineered parts?

 

[ReturnOfUltraman]

OMEGuy

This one looks like a nice Speedmaster that needs a service, some cleaning, new subdial hands, a correct crown and a #516 end piece. Hour and minute hand look slightly off to me.

I would consider a relume of the markers.

So something like this..?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Watchexcha...mega_speedmaster_14501267_just_serviced_read/

 

[killer67]

Did you order an extract?

 

[Dan S]

Step back from the watch ... just leave it alone. An Extract could be a good investment.

 

[Yelbic]

Christie's has verified that the Watch is indeed an Ultraman. They say between 25 and 45K -- not sure which way I might go on this...... Thanks for all the help. Sell it or keep it? Will it increase or decrease in value in the next 10 years

 

[killer67]

Yelbic

Christie's has verified that the Watch is indeed an Ultraman. They say between 25 and 45K -- not sure which way I might go on this...... Thanks for all the help. Sell it or keep it? Will it increase or decrease in value in the next 10 years

but did you get an extract? Is it close to a 26.07X.XXX serial ?

 

[Spacefruit]

Yelbic

Christie's has verified that the Watch is indeed an Ultraman. They say between 25 and 45K -- not sure which way I might go on this...... Thanks for all the help. Sell it or keep it? Will it increase or decrease in value in the next 10 years

a little tip. I bet you heard “it’s worth $45,000”

I don’t blame you.

now you think, “ok well at least I will get $25,000” at worst.

no you won’t.

auction houses are protocol driven machines designed to take as much as they can out of the sale. It’s so much, and so egregious that they have to employ really charming people to persuade buyers and sellers to work with them.

worst case scenario is your watch sells for 25,000. That is, the buyer pays 25,000 to christies. (except that’s not the worst case because they will try to persuade you to put in a lower reserve)

christies takes 5,000 from the buyer and you get 20,000. Oh hold on. Unless you negotiated a deal, they will try to charge 6-10% of the bid. Worst case scenario is you get 18,000.

that's a long way from the $45,000 that the charming christies person originally planted in your brain.

as far as Ultraman future value is concerned, I would rather spend the same money on a super special 145.012 and have change.

Now the small band of collectors that were blowing hot air under the perception and values of UM’s have gone quiet (they sold them all) the values and interest has fallen, and rightly so.

not a single (experienced) speedmaster collector friend has ever expressed a desire to purchase an Ultraman in the last 7 years.

That said, just because I have a sour taste in my mouth about them, doesn’t mean it is not in high demand - especially from Rolex Refugees and other Auction House customers.

but as I said give me a fine 145.012 of the ordinary kind any day over an average Ultraman

 

[lindo]

Spacefruit

a little tip. I bet you heard “it’s worth $45,000”

I don’t blame you.

now you think, “ok well at least I will get $25,000” at worst.

no you won’t.

auction houses are protocol driven machines designed to take as much as they can out of the sale. It’s so much, and so egregious that they have to employ really charming people to persuade buyers and sellers to work with them.

worst case scenario is your watch sells for 25,000. That is, the buyer pays 25,000 to christies. (except that’s not the worst case because they will try to persuade you to put in a lower reserve)

christies takes 5,000 from the buyer and you get 20,000. Oh hold on. Unless you negotiated a deal, they will try to charge 6-10% of the bid. Worst case scenario is you get 18,000.

that's a long way from the $45,000 that the charming christies person originally planted in your brain.

as far as Ultraman future value is concerned, I would rather spend the same money on a super special 145.012 and have change.

Now the small band of collectors that were blowing hot air under the perception and values of UM’s have gone quiet (they sold them all) the values and interest has fallen, and rightly so.

not a single (experienced) speedmaster collector friend has ever expressed a desire to purchase an Ultraman in the last 7 years.

That said, just because I have a sour taste in my mouth about them, doesn’t mean it is not in high demand - especially from Rolex Refugees and other Auction House customers.

but as I said give me a fine 145.012 of the ordinary kind any day over an average Ultraman

I agree with your point that auctioning an item carries certain costs, but I do not understand what you outlined above. In my experience with selling items at auctions in London (Christies, Bonhams), New York and at major auction houses in Australia, the vendor is charged a clearly defined percentage fee based on the hammer price. It usually is at least 15%, and can be a lot higher. To that fee is added VAT/GST or similar tax on the auction fee, plus little extras like photography charges.

If you have something very special indeed to sell and they want it badly as a headline item for the auction, it is possible to negotiate a lower vendor fee. On one memorable occasion I got a rate of 0%, for something that went on to reach an amazing hammer price.

As to the question of whether the OP keeps it for future value increase or sells it now, I doubt that it will rise to dizzying new heights. It is after all a rather odd little limited edition that does nothing for me. I would sell it in a heartbeat (after negotiating the best possible vendor fee with Christies or whomever else the OP might use).

 

[killer67]

Sell it while the market is still there but don’t expect to net near 45K. Please look at fine print and fees

 

[padders]

I think Williams wording might be confusing some but his point stands which is that at auction there is a hammer price, then there is the amount the seller takes home (less commission, fees and VAT) and then there is the buyer's price including their commission. To give an example like that above, at an auction with a hammer price of $20K, depending on the deal negotiated prior to selling, the seller might take home maybe $16K (total seller fees at ~20% inc VAT) and the buyer might have to lay out $25K (including a typical 25% buyer fee, it can be more). The people who win the biggest at a successful auction sale are the auction house themselves.

Auction houses will negotiate on seller fees for businesses and very occasionally for private sellers if a piece can be used as a halo piece for the sale (ie on the catalogue cover) but it is not guaranteed and unless agreed in writing up front shouldn't be assumed. I am not certain that an UM like this would fall into the halo category but it might

Edited: Feb 26, 2020

 

[mk2rick]

Yelbic

My 1967 Speedmaster Professional appears to be an Ultraman. Just a few moments ago, I opened up the back with my brand new Professional Watch opener and without a bit of challenge unveiled the movement.

Here is what I found:

Case Back: 145012 67 SP
Cal 321
S/N 26X79X7X

Is this the real deal???? I think it might be and I have attached a few photos for your review. According to my research the S/N is the exact sequence for the Ultraman. I am beyond excited.

Love a few more insights into this. Cannot believe that I may have hit the lottery. I saw one that went for $75,000 at auction. Let me know your thoughts.

What a beauty and glad you didnt do anything back in 2013!